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 FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW

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Cosmic_Jumper
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Ghost-rider
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Ghost-rider
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PostSubject: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 02, 2015 7:36 pm

Guys
I know I have not posted in a long while but I am curous of
this issue if it is 1?? On the bottom side of the final drive
on the swing I have noticed OIL coming out of a hole
right below the rear bearings on the silverwing.. I am curious
is this normal for OIL to seep out of that little hole? Is that a
overflow hole in case you put to much oil in the final drive???
I do have a pic on my cell ph. BUT my flip phones screen is
to small to get it on the net. BUT anyway if you lay down on
your side or back on the left side of the silverwing under the final
drive right below the bearings you WILL see the hole I am
talking about
IS that a overflow relief hole for the final drive oil to seep
out???
Thank you
Ghost rider Greg
oh 2010 model
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Final drive   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 02, 2015 10:14 pm

I believe the area you are talking about is a small notch or re-leaf depending on your engineering skills. It is there in case of a leaking seal behind the clutch drum.See page 11-0 of the Honda Service manual,if you have one to see the notch in the case. I would say a small amount of residue is OK but you probably are looking to replace the seal before it starts to effect the clutch or belt. There is no overflow just the fill hole. Fill it until until oil comes out of the fill hole.
There is a vent hose on the final drive ,but that is all it is. Depending on your mileage you might clean up the hole area including the clutch shoes and lubricating the small bearing in the clutch assembly.
Howard NWSSC
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Ghost-rider
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 03, 2015 3:46 pm

I do have the shop manuel book and my brother who has worked on my 1 st silverwing
said that there is no clutch on our silverwings. I do believe he needs to be proven
WRONG cuz he does not like that being proven wrong.. He still thinks it's a over flow
for the final drive. You ALL know this bike better then my brother does. Cuz most
of you have done ALOT of maintenance on these bikes over the years. Has anyone ever
replaced a clutch on there swing?? Just curious
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 03, 2015 6:33 pm

Yeah, I've replaced a Silverwing clutch (as an upgrade) as well as clutch shoes on a couple of other Silverwings. It's a centrifical clutch, not a multiplate clutch.

There is no "overflow" on the Silverwing final drive. If you've got an oil drip coming from the belt drive case it is more than likely the clutch bell seal in the final drive that is leaking. I've also replaced a couple of those seals as well.

Given that your brother isn't as "informed" as he'd like to think he is, I would hesitate having him "help" you by fixing it. '...always wanted t'fix me one of them scooter thangs..."

Tim
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 03, 2015 7:06 pm

What your brother may have meant is there's no manual clutch on a Silverwing. There is a centrifugal clutch on the scooter.
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"Hi Yo"
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FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW 510-80

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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 03, 2015 8:06 pm

exavid wrote:
What your brother may have meant is there's no manual clutch on a Silverwing. There is a centrifugal clutch on the scooter.
Just be careful squeezing that "clutch" lever!!! affraid
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 03, 2015 9:25 pm

Yes indeed about that 'clutch' lever. My two friends who each just bought Silverwings are having to learn that isn't a clutch. It took me a while to get used to the difference with my first scooter although now I switch between my scooter and motorcycle with no problem at all. Old dogs can learn a new trick but it takes practice.
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Ghost-rider
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 04, 2015 1:41 am

My brother IS pretty knolegable on motorcycles bigtime he has built his own Harleys
and he has worked on my silverwing from time to time. He most likely forgot about
the centrifugal clutch as I did. BUT I knew there is a centrifugal clutch. That slipped
my mind when we were working on the bike yesterday. Had to change the rear
tire hat is how we both saw the little noch right below the bearings with a lot of oil
residue around it and on the rim. Also replaced the air breather with a k&n air filter.
I will let y brother know that there is the centrifugal clutch. and tell him that is is
oil coming from the belt drive case and it is more likely the clutch bell seal in the final
drive. So I will see what he says to that?? Is it hard to get at the clutch bell seal
in the final drive area?? What page in the shop manual??? I am going to take a pic
of tims response and send it to my brother by the way my brother KNOWS a lot
about most motorcycles.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 04, 2015 10:26 am

If you are referring to the final drive shaft (the splined shaft that the rear wheel fits on), and if you are seeing "some" oily residue there where that shaft exits the final drive gear box, that would be acceptable in most cases. However if there is so much oil "leaking" from that location that it coats the tire or wheel rim on that left side then the final drive seal is leaking and should be replaced.

If so then the belt cases, belt, and Driven Pulley & Clutch assembly needs to be taken off (22mm nut). Then the circlip and Clutch Bell needs to be removed (Special Tool or 10", 3 jawed gear puller and a lot of luck) from the input shaft. Once the Bell is removed you'll see several bolts for the final drive cover.

However if it is only the Clutch Bell seal that's leaking then you can stop here and just pop out that input shaft seal and push in a replacement.

I've never needed to disassemble the final drive so I can't advise you whether that final drive gear box seperates from the left side swing arm or if it is an integral part of that swing arm. Anyway, you'll need to disassemble that final drive gear box to replace that leaking (final drive shaft) seal. It only goes in from inside that gearbox.

All the above said, if the rear wheel is so loose that it slides along the final drive shaft splines that would cause an oil leak at that (output shaft) seal location as well. Way too loose? Check for a missing wheel or shaft spacer.

Tim

PS: Remember, information is a two way street. Please get back to us and tell us how you make out.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Final Drive Overflow   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 04, 2015 10:58 am

I think you (and your brother)will find a wealth of information on this site. Convincing your brother is another matter.As Tim has stated you have to remove the clutch outer(Honda's term not mine) to gain axes to the seal.You can use a three or two jaw puller.The seal can then be preyed out.Installing the clutch outer(we would call it a drum) is another matter.The reason a installation tool is used,you do not want to drive the drum on because you would be hitting the balls of the bearing against the race and it would be doomed to failure.
The tool is over a $100.00 but with some patience you can use PVC
pipe and pull the drum back on. I've done this.The seal behind the rear wheel is another matter and the final drive case has to be dissembled from the left side. Howard NWSSC
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Ghost-rider
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 2:36 pm

Guys
Your a bi help but my brother STILL thinks a over flow from the final drive.. So I do
not know what to say to that I told him what you all suggested what you ALL said. So
IF I have a problem down theroad due to the fact that the bell seal from inside the final
drive or centrifugal clutch gives me a major problem down the rd. Well I WILL tell
him that it was your fault for NOT checking into this and you WILL have to buy the
parts at your own expense. Because you would NOT listen to anyone else. he thinks
he knows it all and I have proven him wrong a few times.
thanks guys and
HAPPY EASTER
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Ghost-rider
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 2:38 pm

KEYBOARDS STINK BIG TIMEi meant to say your a big help
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 2:59 pm

I had to replace the seal behind the driven clutch last year.It's a big to do job,you have to remove the left swing arm to get at the seal.Removing and installing the new seal was the easy part .removing the swing arm with the rear drive system takes time ,be sure to secure the rear speed sensor tight in it's place or you will not have any speedometer reading on the dash board. Hope this helps, tin man.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 8:26 pm

tinman wrote:
I had to replace the seal behind the driven clutch last year.It's a big to do job,you have to remove the left swing arm to get at the seal.Removing and installing the new seal was the easy part .removing the swing arm with the rear drive system takes time ,be sure to secure the rear speed sensor tight in it's place or you will not have any speedometer reading on the dash board. Hope this helps, tin man.

Au contraire Tinny, no need to remove that entire left swingarm. You only need to remove the Driven Pulley assembly and  "Clutch Outer"/clutch bell/clutch drum --whatever you'd care to call it-- to replace that "seal behind the driven clutch". You will, however, need to remove that entire left swing arm if you are replacing the crankshaft seal (behind the variator).

I suppose though that you could remove that left side swingarm along with the final drive gear box and take the whole mess to your local Honda dealer so that they could remove and reinstall the clutch bell with their special tools. That would certainly save some shop charges, true. But you'd be going to an awful lot of trouble because you'd be required to remove the right swingarm and disconnect the rear suspension too so that the rear wheel could be removed.

Tim
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 05, 2015 9:25 pm

I must have mis understood .I was referring on how to replace the crank seal that was leaking, nothing else. The clutch bell does not have to come off,but the swing arm does.
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Ghost-rider
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09, 2015 1:30 am

guys
Thanks for your advice. I did see my brother last sunday and talked to him more
about it. BUT he STILL thinks it is a overflow from the final drive. I have NOT added
any oil to the final drive in a while and he said do not add any for a good long time
and see what happens. he also said well if ya wanna pay me what the dealers pay
there mechs. then I will do it. So I am going to keep on eye o the seep or drip thru
the noch and se what happens YES I know from what you have told me that there
is NO final drive overflow.
I will let ya know what and IF anything happens down the rd.
thanks for your help.
Ghost rider Greg
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09, 2015 1:14 pm

If you do have a leak and go for a 'wait and see' make sure it's not such a 'wait' that it goes dry and fails.
The level of the final drive is easy to check, take off the plastic cover and stick a bent wire into the fill hole to see just what the level is in the drive. Check it on the center stand. The level should be just at the fill hole's bottom. As far as over flowing I can't see any way that could happen, where does the extra oil supposedly come from? It would be hard to overfill the drive because once you fill the drive the oil will flow right back out as fast as you pump it in. It could be something as simple as a bad seal on the filler plug. In this case it might be cheaper in the long run to take it to a dealer for a look.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW   FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09, 2015 4:09 pm

Greg I've kept out of this secondhand argument with your brother. If he thinks he knows more about the Silverwing than what can be obtained from this forum, and thinks his skills deserve the pay(from his own brother)of a certified Honda mechanic, well all I can say is I feel sorry for you. FINAL DRIVE OVERFLOW Dontknow Good luck and keep us informed on the outcome.
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