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jmaslak
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2014 8:05 pm

I am not happy with the front end of my SW. I searched for progressive springs, and searched again for hyper pro but the threads are old and the sites are not current. I want to order locally, ie, North America, if possible, to save on shipping. I could not find any place that carries them. I searched some of the motorcycle online stores, no luck.
If any forum member has other suggestions or knows of a source , please let me know. I am looking for progressive front springs that will my 2005 SW abs.
Thanks.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2014 8:20 pm

Just saw another recent post from another member on the topic. I looked up Hyper Pro in the Netherlands and dropped a message there. Will go from there unless someone has another suggestion.
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sctr199
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2014 9:15 pm

Did a search through some earlier posts and found this site which is where I also recently got mine:

http://www.epmperf.com/
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 06, 2014 10:09 pm

sctr199 wrote:
Did a search through some earlier posts and found this site which is where I also recently got mine:

http://www.epmperf.com/

This looks like the site I ordered mine from years ago.  Here is the page 12 of the "progressive springs" part of the site:

http://www.epmperf.com/price-lists/progressive_fork_spring_07_09_14.pdf


I think Meldrew keeps extra sets of the Hyperpro springs so you may PM him to see if he has any left. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 07, 2014 4:34 am

^^^ lights blue touch paper ........... Rage
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 07, 2014 11:14 am

The front springs the Wing comes with are progressive springs. The Hyperpro are firmer, and that is the main difference, not progressiveness.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 07, 2014 11:22 am

The only set of fork springs I've ever bought were a set of heavy duty fork springs for a MZ I bought in the old West Germany for a sidecar project I didn't start and they then sat on a shelf in my garage for at least 25 years. I sold them with a MZ ETZ 250 and loads of other MZ stuff when I moved home nearly 2 years ago.

As I'm happy with the front end of my Silver Wing why do I care if someone wants to throw money at a problem that isn't there. My SW front end has fork protectors and a mud flap, two additions that I feel are a lot more essential on a maxi scooter than after market fork springs and a cup holder.

Changing fork springs is simply old men farkling again.   Smile
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 07, 2014 8:21 pm

Thanks sctr199 and Jeff for the correct link. I found the website and the right page. I am also considering Meldrew's advice about tinkering where it's not necessary. I'm going to think things over , again, and go from there. I will know what, if anything, needs to be done by the end of this season.
Thanks for all the input.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 07, 2014 10:01 pm

cotetoi wrote:
Thanks sctr199 and Jeff for the correct link. I found the website and the right page. I am also considering Meldrew's advice about tinkering where it's not necessary. I'm going to think things over , again, and go from there. I will know what, if anything, needs to be done by the end of this season.
Thanks for all the input.

Well you could add a 10MM-12MM PVC spacer to the existing OEM spacer & springs and tighten up the suspension a bit. That'd give you an idea whether you'd care to go to next step and change to Hyperpros. But then you'd be doing to all the work for half the result. Cheap though...

Tim
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sctr199
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 07, 2014 10:59 pm

Suspension mods can get addicting. . . if, down the road you go for the HyperPros, you may very well start thinking about the shocks. I shimmed mine with 3/8" of ABS tubing, cost all of about $3.00 to do, still didn't like the ride and went with Hagons. Fixing one end without fixing the other is akin to wine without cheese Smile
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 08, 2014 10:24 am

I know what you are talking about. Things can get out of hand. I like my bike stuff pretty much stock. I did a few upgrades to my Shadow and ended up selling it. You never get anything for upgrades, only the ride for as long as you own your ride. So, I will consider everything by the end of this season. Then proceed with caution.
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2014 5:09 pm

sctr199 wrote:
... shocks ..... went with Hagons.  
I am very interested in your Hagon shocks! I went with Hyperpro fork springs - IMHO, one of the best front end mods you can do ( see my post at https://www.silverwing600.com/t7027-fork-rebuild-and-hyperpro-spring-installation). Now I am left with my OEM Honda rear shocks which are too soft and squishy in the twisties - even though I have them set on stiffest (#5) setting. At $249 for a pair the Hagons are very reasonable - assuming they do the job. What performance differences did you note when you went to Hagon rear shocks? What settings on the spring tension have you tried and what have you settled upon as your optimal setting? Can you adjust the damping rate - or just the spring preload? I weigh 160 pounds, ride with maybe 20 pounds gear, have a 2008 SWing approaching 60,000 miles, ride 20,000 miles a year, and generally go 5-10mph over speed limit on all types of roads. Any feedback on your Hagon shocks is appreciated. Can I trouble you measure your 'sag' at low and at high spring setting (I can then compare this to my OEM spring sag)? Thanks!
PS - Here is my sag data FYI (has anyone else measured their sag):
I measured the 'sag' and got the following.

The measurements are in inches to nearest 16th of an inch and represent sag measure on one of the rear springs.

SOFT SPRING SETTING (#1)
0/16 ON CENTER STAND (REAR TIRE OFF GROUND)
2-2/16 BIKE RESTING ON TIRES (NO ONE ON BIKE-NO STAND DOWN)
2-14/16 ME SITTING ON BIKE - I WEIGH 160 LB.
3-10/16 ME BOUNCING UP AND DOWN ON SEAT - I WEIGH 160 LB.

HARD SPRING SETTING (#5)
0/16 ON CENTER STAND (REAR TIRE OFF GROUND)
1-8/16 BIKE RESTING ON TIRES (NO ONE ON BIKE-NO STAND DOWN)
2-3/16 ME SITTING ON BIKE - I WEIGH 160 LB.
2-12/16 ME BOUNCING UP AND DOWN ON SEAT - I WEIGH 160 LB.

THE SAG DIFFERENTIAL BETWEEN SETTING #1 AND #5 IS 10/16 (DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS - BUT THIS IS WHAT I MEASURED - WITH SAG LESS ON SETTING #5 AS COMPARED TO SETTING #1). The above measurements on setting #1 and #5 DO NOT take into account the this 10/16 sag differential (SAG IS JUST AS MEASURED - NOT CORRECTEDl.
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2014 6:02 pm

I can't help but wonder when I read about the vast improvements gained by fitting hyperpro springs, how much of the gain is actually from the springs & how much if from the change in viscosity of the damping oil.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2014 6:05 pm

Or the viscosity of the mind. drunken
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2014 7:25 pm

jmaslak wrote:
The front springs the Wing comes with are progressive springs.  The Hyperpro are firmer, and that is the main difference, not progressiveness.
The above statement may be a bit of a simplification of what is really going on.  The one thing that surprised me was that I thought the HPS would be stiffer – in fact they are MUCH softer – at least with the initial travel – I have some thoughts on this. On a side by side comparison (with another Swing, same year less miles) when you pump the forks with HPS they are much softer and go up and down so much easier than the OEM springs. The Honda OEM springs have a two inch spacer – but the Hyperpro do not – the HPS are not preloaded and compressed as much as the OEM springs – this translates into the HPS being a lot softer to start – then they get harder farther down. I had at one time considered adding that 1" PVC spacer (for total 3" long spacer) as a means for a better ride. Now that I have experienced/analyzed HPS I am thinking that the 3"spacer will reduce sag and cut way down on the initial dive – but do nothing to significantly reduce the harshness of the ride in the manner that HPS can do. My only regret with HPS is not doing this 55,000 miles ago. If your Swing rides are short, you don't go more that a few thousand miles a year, your roads are smooth, and your pace is easy – then this upgrade may not be necessary for you – but for the rest of you this mod is a must!

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Well you could add a 10MM-12MM PVC spacer to the existing OEM spacer & springs and tighten up the suspension a bit. That'd give you an idea whether you'd care to go to next step and change to Hyperpros. But then you'd be doing to all the work for half the result. Cheap though... Tim
IMO adding a spacer is going to help the initial dive of the front end when you hit a bump - but it will not make for a softer ride and is no substitute for Hypepro springs.

The Bern wrote:
I can't help but wonder when I read about the vast improvements gained by fitting hyperpro springs, how much of the gain is actually from the springs & how much if from the change in viscosity of the damping oil.
This a a question that I have asked myself.  IMHO Hyperpro springs work wonders because they are LONGER and FILL the area of the 2 inch OEM spacer with SPRING, giving you 2 more inches of spring travel - which translates into softer during initial compression and firmer at end of compression.  The damping oil is just that - for damping - it does little to absorb any shock - just gets the spring back to a stable position quickly so you can absorb the next bump.  At low speed, say entering a gas station, the OEM SWing gives you a big dive and then a big dunk as it bounces back; however, the Hyperpro springs don't give you a big dive - so they behave differently than the OEM springs.  This improved behavior is due to the spring - not the oil.  Chaning fork oil may improve your suspension - OEM or HyperPro, however, this is very difficult to test as changing fork oil is such a chore.  I am happy with fork oil I used; however, another viscosity may be better - but I doubt if I will ever chang it as what I have (spring and oil) works wonders compared to OEM (spring and oil).

When I went over a DOT BOT (those round buttons Cal Trans puts on the freeway) with OEM forks it was annoying and I did not like it - now, with Hyperpro springs, riding down a line of these DOT BOTs is not a problem, and SWing is very stable on them, and the ride is comfortable.
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sctr199
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PostSubject: Re: Progressive springs   Progressive springs I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 09, 2014 7:33 pm

Dimond wrote:
sctr199 wrote:
... shocks ..... went with Hagons.  
I am very interested in your Hagon shocks!


When ordering the Hagons, the nice lady who helped me on the phone asked me my weight (somewhat more than yours), in order to know what springs to put on them, so comparing sag between stock and my Hagons would be apples and oranges.

I can tell you though, the first thing I noticed is my Swing had noticeably increased its lean angle when on the sidestand, indicating it wasn't sagging under its own weight so much. Last month I went on a weekend camping trip, carrying a total of about 250# of me and camping gear, and it rode just as level as could be.  I carried a comparable amount of weight on my old '02 with shocks not only and their highest adjustment, but springs shimmed with 3/8" of 1 1/2" ABS tubing and I still felt like I was riding a chopper.

Hagons only have 3 settings, they come set in the middle as I remember. Don't have my Swing nearby, so can't remember if they have a dampening adjustment, but I don't think so.

One incident while riding convinced me to do something with the suspenstion-went around a tight corner a little too fast, the Swing wallowed very badly, gave me a bit of a scare.  Wouldn't hesitate to take the same corner at the same speed now.

BTW, should you decide on the Hagons, there are a couple of ways to install them; the hard way is to remove the inner box first.  The easy way, if you don't mind repairing a couple of holes, is to cut away the portion of the inner box just over the upper shock lugs, just enough to get a 12mm socket on the mounting bolts. Then swap out the shocks one at a time, reaching under the bodywork and working the shocks off once the bolts are removed.  I used a bit of dish soap to help work the new shocks over the lugs,  wasn't a difficult job.  I did both shocks in about 40 minutes taking my time.  Good part: no bodywork removed.
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