no fuel injection

Hi there ,

I am new in this forum i have a silverwing 600 model 2001 it was pretty working good . I left it in the garage for one week without turning it on. Now when it doesnt start the FI light turns on and I hear no sound of the fuel injection . usually there should be a zzz sound when starter is pressed this isnt happening . I appreciate your advice and hints.

Regards,
Abdo Waked

Start with the simplest things.

You didn't say if the engine cranks (turns over) when you press the starter button. When you press the starter button, what happens?

How old is your battery and is it fully charged? Perhaps your charging system is not working and you have a run down battery? Before digging into the fuel injection, check the battery and charging system.

Perhaps you didn't close the seat properly and and that pesky under seat light has flattened the battery.

bigbird wrote:

Start with the simplest things.

You didn't say if the engine cranks (turns over) when you press the starter button. When you press the starter button, what happens?

How old is your battery and is it fully charged? Perhaps your charging system is not working and you have a run down battery? Before digging into the fuel injection, check the battery and charging system.

First thanks for the fast reply.The battery is not old and the engine cranks and turns over very well when pressing starter button but FI led keeps on. And before pressing the starter button when i switch the red button down i used to hear a zzzz sound as if it's injecting fuel it doesn't do that now so I don't think it is a battery problem but i will give it a try and tell you what happens.

reagrds,

Meldrew wrote:

Perhaps you didn't close the seat properly and and that pesky under seat light has flattened the battery.

thanks for your reply, I will try the battery.

Regards,

abdowaked wrote:

The battery is not old and the engine cranks and turns over very well when pressing starter button but FI led keeps on. And before pressing the starter button when i switch the red button down i used to hear a zzzz sound as if it's injecting fuel it doesn't do that now so I don't think it is a battery problem but i will give it a try and tell you what happens.

OK, your description is very good. You have a good battery but your fuel pump is not working. That zzzz sounds is the electric fuel pump. Did the bike tip over by any chance? You can check the fuel cut-off relay, p. 5-84 of the service manual. You can also check the fuel pump itself, p. 5-82 of the manual. Then there is a whole chapter on checking the FI system, but again you need a service manual.
To sum up, check the 15A fuse in the E position of the fuse box, which controls the ignition/fuel pump/start circuits. If the fuse is good, start with the relay for fuel cutoff, and then the fuel pump itself. If all is good, then start getting your fault codes for the FI. If you don't have a service manual, you'll need one.

bigbird wrote:

abdowaked wrote:

The battery is not old and the engine cranks and turns over very well when pressing starter button but FI led keeps on. And before pressing the starter button when i switch the red button down i used to hear a zzzz sound as if it's injecting fuel it doesn't do that now so I don't think it is a battery problem but i will give it a try and tell you what happens.

OK, your description is very good. You have a good battery but your fuel pump is not working. That zzzz sounds is the electric fuel pump.  Did the bike tip over by any chance? You can check the fuel cut-off relay, p. 5-84 of the service manual. You can also check the fuel pump itself, p. 5-82 of the manual. Then there is a whole chapter on checking the FI system, but again you need a service manual.
To sum up, check the 15A fuse in the E position of the fuse box, which controls the ignition/fuel pump/start circuits. If the fuse is good, start with the relay for fuel cutoff, and then the fuel pump itself. If all is good, then start getting your fault codes for the FI. If you don't have a service manual, you'll need one.

thanks for trying to help, can u show me a link to download the service manual ?

Regards,

abdowaked wrote:

thanks for trying to help, can u show me a link to download the service manual ?

Unfortunately, the Swing service manual is not available for free online.
You will need to buy it. Your dealer can order it for you, or you can buy it here:

http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?Make=AHC&Model=SCOO&Year=2002&Category=1&class%5F2=AHC&mk=Honda+Motorcycle&yr=2002&md=Scooters&dt=Shop%2FService+Information&module=&from=result&Style=helm&Sku=61MCT00&itemtype=N

That link is for a 2002 service manual.

bigbird wrote:

abdowaked wrote:

thanks for trying to help, can u show me a link to download the service manual ?

Unfortunately, the Swing service manual is not available for free online.
You will need to buy it. Your dealer can order it for you, or you can buy it here:

http://www.helminc.com/helm/product2.asp?Make=AHC&Model=SCOO&Year=2002&Category=1&class%5F2=AHC&mk=Honda+Motorcycle&yr=2002&md=Scooters&dt=Shop%2FService+Information&module=&from=result&Style=helm&Sku=61MCT00&itemtype=N

That link is for a 2002 service manual.

I will try to buy the manual but I live in Lebanon, I will check if they ship worlwide. I remembered last time i was riding at 80km/hr i turned the ignition off and back on while riding could that affect the pump or the relay? but i used after that in the same day and worked fine.

Regards,

abdowaked wrote:

I remembered last time i was riding at 80km/hr i turned the ignition off and back on while riding could that affect the pump or the relay? but i used after that in the same day and worked fine.

It's unlikely flipping the kill switch off and then on would have any effect on the FI, considering you say it ran OK right after doing that.

Good luck.

Could it be the side stand switch?

My two cents worth, if the FI light stays on, when cranking the engine, it's possible the connection to the ECU unit is not fully in position. I recently had ocassion to unplug this for cleaning , and when i put it back in the FI light stayed on and engine would not fire, even though it was cranking the engine, after pushing it firmly in place all was well.  

Ok, after familiarising myself with the various starting switches its got nothing to do with the side stand switch. All that seems to do is disable the starter motor. The kill switch will disable the starter and the fuel pump.

Does the FI light flash when first switched on, maybe it can indicate a fault code like some bikes do.

RArch wrote:

Ok, after familiarising myself with the various starting switches its got nothing to do with the side stand switch.  All that seems to do is disable the starter motor.  The kill switch will disable the starter and the fuel pump.

Does the FI light flash when first switched on, maybe it can indicate a fault code like some bikes do.

thanks for helping here , best forum ever. One thing i noticed that my key usually has a little cap which has the honda logo on it this was gone lont time ago. could it be that the keys lost the chip or the transpoder? the FI light doesnt flash means no error codes. and if it is a key problem i don't have another copy what can I do?

Regards,

Old Limey wrote:

My two cents worth, if the FI light stays on, when cranking the engine, it's possible the connection to the ECU unit is not fully in position. I recently had ocassion to unplug this for cleaning , and when i put it back in the FI light stayed on and engine would not fire, even though it was cranking the engine, after pushing it firmly in place all was well.  

thanks for helping here,

where is the ecu unit located can u show a picture or specify a location?

Regards,

My key has lost that cover too but still works fine, I don't think anything can go wrong with the little chip in the key other than loosing it. But it is a good question has to what happens when there is no signal from the chip, maybe someone can answer that for you.

The ECU is behind the left hand cover, see this post about removal:
https://www.silverwing600.com/t1010-left-rear-cover-removal-pictorial-main-fuse-access

Also check out this one for the other sides, you will get some good tips from reading both before you have a go:
https://www.silverwing600.com/t56-air-filter-pictorial

abdowaked wrote:

One thing i noticed that my key usually has a little cap which has the honda logo on it this was gone lont time ago. could it be that the keys lost the chip or the transpoder? the FI light doesnt flash means no error codes. and if it is a key problem i don't have another copy what can I do?

Yes, the HISS (Honda's Ignition Security System requiring a transponder) could be the culprit. In N. America we do not have the HISS on any Silverwings. Our N. American service manuals do not include any information about it.

What I do know is that if you lost both keys, you would need to buy 2 new keys and a new ECU. That would be crazy expensive. Hope it's not that.

Also, there is a fuse controlling the HISS. Does your HISS warning light go out after 2 seconds? If so, the HISS system is OK and a registered key has been used.

bigbird wrote:

abdowaked wrote:

One thing i noticed that my key usually has a little cap which has the honda logo on it this was gone lont time ago. could it be that the keys lost the chip or the transpoder? the FI light doesnt flash means no error codes. and if it is a key problem i don't have another copy what can I do?

Yes, the HISS (Honda's Ignition Security System requiring a transponder) could be the culprit. In N. America we do not have the HISS on any Silverwings. Our N. American service manuals do not include any information about it.

What I do know is that if you lost both keys, you would need to buy 2 new keys and a new ECU. That would be crazy expensive. Hope it's not that.

Also, there is a fuse controlling the HISS. Does your HISS warning light go out after 2 seconds? If so, the HISS system is OK and a registered key has been used.

the HISS warning light is always on now also with the FI light I think it is a chip problem I will try to ask a local dealer. I found this link
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/HONDA-FJS-600-FJS600-Silver-Wing-ECU-CDI-HISS-keys-/320654216534

they say you send them the ECU and they make programmed keys for you. Has anyone tried that?

it was all my fualt because my keys lost the chipand i didnt know that. anyway I will ask a local dealer if i can find a used ECU and keys.

Thanks for helping guys I will be back and post the results.
Best forum ever  

regards,

From what you say about the Hiss light i dont think, it could be a loose connection as i suggested.  

Just in case, here is a photo of my key with the side cover missing. The blob on the right contains the ID chip.

Dunno how this thread ended up so small, but anyway. Here is a link to a YouTube video showing how to program a new chip for your HISS system. While it's not specifically for a Silverwing never the less the procedure should be the same and the wire harness color codes should also be the same as well.
Elsewhere I have seen aftermarket key chips available on line. Not all that expensive either. Tim

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=db0ee6u7CjQ

It's small from the long links posted.Tiny URL is forum friendly.

http://tinyurl.com/