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 fuel pump issue

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kduris116
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 4
Location : South Western PA
Points : 192
Registration date : 2020-11-02

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PostSubject: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 12:57 am

can the fuel pump be cleaned or just replace the darn thing? Question
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3742
Age : 78
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 8686
Registration date : 2009-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 8:13 am

If the scoot has been sitting a long time crap and sludge can end up blocking the pump. When you turn on the key do you hear the faint whine of the fuel pump come ON momentarily? If so the pump and filter screen can sometimes be “cleaned” by adding an entire can of SeaFoam to the tank and letting it sit for a few days. But before that you’ll need to siphon out or otherwise remove all the fuel that’s been sitting in there. Then add some fresh gas and the SeaFoam. That might clear thing up enough to get get it running. If that works you’ll need to continue with SeaFoam treatments in lessening amounts over the next several tanks full. 

If that doesn’t work you’ll probably need to replace the pump, filter screen and filter. The good news is that those parts are individually available. See below. The bad news is that you’ve pretty much got to remove the entire front of the scoot (from the seat forward —including the seat) to remove the tank. Use the forum Search function to find several previous posts & discussions on this.

Above all, don’t despair. The job is doable. Just be careful removing the body panels.

.fuel pump issue 415e0310

BTW, it’s considered forum courtesy to introduce yourself, tell us about the scoot and where you’re from. That’d be on the Introduction section of the forum. We’re all friends here, but there are a couple of old, crank curmudgeons.
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kduris116
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 4
Location : South Western PA
Points : 192
Registration date : 2020-11-02

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PostSubject: Fuel system   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 9:00 am

Thanks for the info... looks like I need to find a corner in my garage to tear this thing apart, Hope by introduction was entered correctly…
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3742
Age : 78
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 8686
Registration date : 2009-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 10:30 am

Start here:

https://www.silverwing600.com/t11101-remove-front-fairing-how-to-video?highlight=Front+fairing

You will need extra room in that garage to store all the body panels you remove. And you’ll also need Plast-Aid to repair the broken tabs and cracks which will magically appear. Buy it on eBay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YGzjWeK-nY
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 8:49 pm

Use your judgement if it's a rusty mess or not running replace it. Some have had fuel sending unit problems. Clean the tank and start fresh.

SW Pa. has some good roads. I 've been in Somerset a few times and love RT. 30 west of Chambersburg some big hills and twisty roads. Pa. has the best roads if you know where to explore.
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kduris116
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 4
Location : South Western PA
Points : 192
Registration date : 2020-11-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeTue Nov 03, 2020 10:17 pm

Thanks fo the tip, yes some cool roads in PA. speaking of sending unit, after putting 2 gallons of new non ethanol gas in it the gas gauge hasn't moved off "E", wonder if that is all tied together, ie fuel pump, fuel filter, sending unit???? Currently i can only get it to run with spraying starting fluid into air cleaner, once i stop spraying it quits running.... SY
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 04, 2020 8:13 pm

When you turn key on can you hear fuel pump run? About 1 second if it's not working no noise pump is done or has an electrical problem. Engine runs on starting fluid sounds like no fuel to injectors.

Pull it apart and test at connector to pump for power and or ground. 1 second when key turned, pump should have power and when cranking engine.

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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 10, 2021 9:27 pm

I am having issues with my swing trike. The scooter will start fine and run decent but when you try and give it full throttle it just bogs and dies. The fuel gauge is blinking on empty even though the tank is full. It was throwing codes for IAT sensor so i replaced that and now no codes flashing. I have taken the fuel rail and injectors to the shop to be cleaned so they are good. The pump comes on when you turn on the ignition. I disconnected the fuel line going to the fuel rail and put it in a fuel can to see if anything was clogged but gas came out pretty strong for the second after ignition was turned on. But then it just stopped pushing fuel(shouldn't that pump run constantly when the ignition is on?) When I pull the plug going to the sending unit and turn on the ignition I have no power going to the plug when testing with my test light(none of the pins are hot)is this normal?
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2021 5:48 pm

Pump will run when key turned on to pressurize system then shuts off. Once starter is pushed and engine stays running so will pump. Pins have to have power or you wouldn't hear pump run. You need around 50 PSI for injectors and enough flow to feed engine. There is a filter in the tank could be clogged up and not enough pressure or flow to run properly. Screen to pump clogged. Fuel pressure regulator could also be bad and returning to much pressure back to tank. Some had issues with regulator but it was leaking internally and fuel was sucked into vacuum line and causing a rich condition.

4 wire connector 2 power and 2 grounds. Pump power and ground, fuel sending unit same.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2021 7:53 pm

She spurts out pretty good when the key is turned on but then nothing. I was thinking that pump needs to keep pushing out fuel as long as key is on. The issue I am having is she bogs terribly when I try and give her full throttle. I put her up on the floor jack so the real wheel was clear. I can rev it up to 90mph but then she will gradually start to slow down to idle and some times die. The fuel gauge is flashing on empty and the tank is all the way to the top. Unforturnately I will most likely have to drain all that fuel out to get the darn pump/sender/filter out. the scooter is not throwing any codes besides the blinking on empty.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2021 9:21 pm

90 on a jack you are brave. Engine dies with no load on it not good needs much more fuel riding it. Ethanol gas left sitting long enough causes a lot of problems sucks up moisture from air and degrades .
Some pumps on EBAY get a clean one OR buy new. Clean tank if it's rusted at all internally or it will just pick up all that and clog up pump again.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2021 9:28 pm

So you are thinking the same as me then(the pump or filter is faulty) plus the sending unit must also be inop due to the flashing empty fuel gauge.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2021 10:00 pm

Fuel sending is either stuck in down position or bad. There is a place to check fuel pressure at line that comes from pump to line. Service manual page 5-45 Banjo bolt most likely a 10MM bolt with a sealing washer but unless you have the proper fitting and gauge to test it? Dealer might? It's a test port for checking fuel pressure. Old school Honda stuff from 1980's used that same banjo bolt on fuel filters and 10MM bolt to check pressure. Been there done that. Page 5-39 service check bolt. Manual says 43 PSI not 50 PSI . My bad.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 11, 2021 10:22 pm

Yes I am thinking I might have to bring it in to get pressure checked. I don't have all those fancy tools. I think I am just going to take the body off and throw it on my trailer. I have a Honda Dealership here in Panama City. Should be alot cheaper if they don't have to mess with all the body panels. I know how to take it down to the skeleton(did that on my 2002 Silverwing before leaving MN) hey thanks for all the replies!!
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:21 pm

Fuel pump is out and it was a piece of cake because I did not pay no attention to the manual that says you have to remove damm near the whole body to get tank out. I just removed the middle cover and bottom cover and little frame. Then I removed the gas cap and put a large roll of duct tape under the panel to lift it far enough so I could get an open end 12MM wrench in there to remove the top bolt. The other two bolts are down on the bottom. took me maybe 25 minutes total to get tank out!!
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:27 pm

Took me a lot longer to drain the tank,but it wasn't hard either just time consuming. I just grabbed the good ole turkey baster and about 2ft length of 3/8 fuel hose. I put an adjustable hose clamp on the hose to sucure it to end of turkey baster so it would not slip off. Perfect fit to get around that bar inside the tank and I was able to get all the fuel out. If I did it again I would get me a jack rabbit pump to make the job much faster.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:29 pm

New complete pump assembly is arriving Wed from Bike bandit $369 but comes with everything for inside the tank.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:31 pm

Great job you'd make a flat rate mechanic proud. Keep us posted.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:39 pm

Yes the pump was the worst I have ever seen and I have chnged out a lot of in tank fuel pumps before. The float was stuck in place and really took a lot of force to get it to move. The whole unit was pure rusty mess. I am surprised the fuel pump was still pumping at all. She was having a hard time getting fuel past that nasty looking filter. Surprising thing is that that inside of the tank is not bad at all. I will put a little evaporust rust from Oreilley"s in there and let it soak over night and the inside will be shiny clean!!
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:46 pm

Keep in mind that this scooter only has 2785 miles. But was used on a ranch to herd cattle(thats why it was a trike) Did not get the right maintenance that was needed for sure! I see a lot of talk on here about sea foam. I think if a person really researches it you will find info of sea foam reaking havok on rubber parts of carbs. Stuff is great for lawnmowers and small outboards but I would never put it in my bikes. I use a product called Chlor clean made by Polaris. Won't hurt rubber seals diaphrams or orings.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:49 pm

I am originally from MN and had to store my bikes every winter. I just filled them to the top with Non-Oxy fuel and put in a little stabil. I would get the suspension off the ground(Either with the center stand or a motorcycle lift) and put battery tenders on
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 6:50 pm

OH and the most important thing is steel wool in the exhaust muffler ends(keeps the critters out)
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 8:17 pm

She'll run fine with a new pump.  Rusty mess it is.  Critters like to chew wires and make nests in airboxes too.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 8:27 pm

Yes I know. I bought an old Norton once that the guy thought something was wrong with it because it had no neutral. Well I put it up on my hoist and started taking the chain cover and magneto cover off,when all of the sudden all these mice started coming out from everywhere. Turns out they built a nest on the front sprocket and jammed the area with mud and straw so the bike chain could not move. i cleaned the area out and the bike rolled easily. I have had numerous Metric cycles that were in sheds that had nests in their airbox area. This scooter came with a little lizard and a big brown recluse when I started tearing it apart. Always have to be careful when reaching up into areas where these things hide!
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 8:59 pm

Lived in Texas a long time ago seemed like Scorpions and Tarantulas were very common. Snakes ahh.
Sounds like you have some wrenching experience enjoy SW once it's running. It's a good bike and fast enough to be fun and will take you as far as your Butt can handle.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 9:03 pm

Oh I know because I have a 2002 Swing also that is mint low mile bike. I have had her up to 115MPH before and it was smooth. Took me a while to get there(nothing like my VMax)
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 1077
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3106
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 9:20 pm

Those 02's must be faster than my 2013 it tops out at 105 speedo and GPSs. Smile I have a 05 Yamaha FJR1300 that's good for about 160 but never took it above 142 47K on that one fast enough for me.

V max a fast bike either older ones or newer models.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 18, 2021 9:23 pm

I Had a 1993 converted to VBoost from idle. Supertrap competition open end headers. Nasty fast and loved to wheelie!!!
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Meldrew
Visiting Curmudgeon
Meldrew

Number of posts : 3670
Location : York, North Yorkshire, England UK
Points : 7588
Registration date : 2010-11-16

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19, 2021 4:24 am

... and like a revolving door we're back yet again to old fellas telling us all how fast they ride.  Rolling Eyes
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19, 2021 10:27 am

Well I have had three of the worlds fastest factory bikes(VMax,Kawasaki 500 widowmaker,Hyabusa)so yes I have gone very fast on Motorcycles!!
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel

Number of posts : 3050
Age : 81
Points : 7870
Registration date : 2009-08-18

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19, 2021 1:12 pm

My question to scooter rider----did you ever live and ride in Germany for any length of time? If not, you have not ridden fast for any distance.
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Scooter
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Panama City FL
Points : 66
Registration date : 2021-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: fuel pump issue   fuel pump issue I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 19, 2021 11:32 pm

NO I have not and yes I heard everyone there runs 100 mph like we do 65 here. Blows my mind.
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