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 Drive belt age

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john grinsel
tinman
pjas1969
rjdoles
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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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rjdoles


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PostSubject: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2013 12:38 pm

This concerns our Reflex scooter but since drive belts are common to all scooters, I thought I might ask this group.

It seems that heat and miles are the biggest factors in belt deterioration. I was looking for opinion's on whether the age of the drive belt might also influence/degrade it's useful service life?

I know that many people replace older tires, even if they still have a lot of useable tread left, just to be safe.

We bought my wife's 05 Reflex, with 1,300 miles on it, four years ago. It now has about 6,800 miles on it. The replacement interval for the Reflex belt is 12,000 miles. The scooter is 8 years old and is due for a rear tire. I am getting ready to order the tire and parts to prep it for this riding season. I was considering replacing the belt.

Is anyone aware of premature failure's of belts that may be more age related than mileage related? Thought's on replacing it?

Thanks for your input.
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pjas1969
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2013 1:56 pm

I've got to admit, that all I've heard from dealers and others is a mileage limit, with no mention of time-related aspects.

But that surely cannot be the case, as vehicle cambelts have a service-life measured in miles & years...

I don't know if the belt gives any warning of imminent failure, or if by snapping it causes damage - but chances are, it won't be at a convenient time & location, and the weather will be poor (it always is). Therefore, why run the risk, and have a day spoiled?

For peace of mind, I'd probably change it, especially if it needs to be disturbed to change the tyre.

Hope that helps,

Paul
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2013 7:18 pm

Do an inspection at every oil change. Turn the belt inside out and look for cracks. Honda belts can go a long way past the recommended belt change. Driving in city and on HWY can make a difference on belt life.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2013 7:47 pm

I would change based on age---Reflex belt change hard on road side as front pulley must come off--Helix for example belt can go in with only piece of wood to hold rear pulley apart.

Now with near 300,000 miles with rubber band drive scooters----change 8 yr oldbike!

I have only had one drive belt end its life on the road, always carry spare as dealers will not have them in stock. All except one belt I have changed at the makers intervals and replaced with OEM parts----recently my 2011 Burgman 400 with change interval at 14,500-15,000---tried it to 20,000 and it worked but these miles were put on in 8-10 months of initial service.
And front pulley gone, rear outer clutch bearing spun, rollers shot---Suzuki paid for parts and labor, except for belt----I had new one with me under seat. 20,000 mile belt, removed looked fine, but....
Walking sucks and getting stuck worse in the middle of nowhere.



My Helix belt failure gave no indication, just turned off freeway, Pulaski VA and no go when I gave gas----Honda Riders Club provided tow, I changed belt in friend's garage. It turned to powder. Carried spare paid for its self that day. For me, great danger in belt failure---you need shot of gas to keep from getting run over....and belt breaks!
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 14, 2013 7:57 pm

I agree with John on this. I would change the belt just because it is 8 yrs old and also for 'peace of mind'. I usually change my belts a bit early or right on time. But mostly for peace of mind. As "tinman" said, Honda over engineers things and I bet you could get close to 20,000 miles if you were really willing to risk it.

But John was right about shops not carrying belts and so you would be down for a few days. One member here "Hammy" broke a belt in Indiana once, and I over-nighted a used belt to him, and a member there in Indiana helped him change his belt to get him back home. But that doesn't happen a lot. Tell us what you do. I had a Reflex for about 4 months, and really liked it, but it just couldn't keep up with the bay area traffic. But it was a very nice running bike and very smooth.
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rjdoles
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PostSubject: Belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2013 12:38 pm

Thanks for everyone's input on this.

I was looking at the belt replacement procedure in the Reflex service manual.The lower left skirt, inner and outer belt covers and variator have to be removed and replaced to change this belt. I don't carry the tools to be able to perform all that work on the side of the road.

Looks like a new belt is cheap insurance. I ordered the OEM belt today.

Ride safe!
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SCTLVR
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2013 12:54 pm

Prudence is smart with this detail...
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2013 3:40 pm

rjdoles,

Do you belong to the Reflex group on Yahoo Groups? It is a very good site for info. Just go to Yahoo, and then sign in, and go to Groups and search for "Reflex". Bruce, the owner of the site, can be a pain pretty often but is probably the most knowledgeable person with Reflex's.
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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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rjdoles


Number of posts : 139
Age : 73
Location : Columbus, Ohio
Points : 3593
Registration date : 2012-09-24

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PostSubject: Yahoo Reflex Forum   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 16, 2013 11:30 am

I have joined sites for our Majesty and Shadow and they were quite good.

I joined the Yahoo Reflex site four years ago. I have found the format and navigation for that site to be extremely frustrating. The search function doesn't work that well for me. It seems like there are a lot of circular links that keep taking you to threads that you have already read.

Bruce Koehler seems to be the authority on Reflex and he has made a lot of information available if you have the patience to keep looking.

I guess that you have to take the good with the bad.

Ride safe!
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 16, 2013 1:35 pm

rj,

I know what you mean about the yahoo group format. It is hard to do searches and also to put pictorials, or attachments, in posts. Have you done the Kmod to your reflex? I was going to do that but bought the Majesty a few months after I bought the Reflex and then sold the Reflex.

I always wondered why Bruce didn't start a format more in lines with this site. I tried to start a couple of sites using the Yahoo group but just didn't like it at all.
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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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rjdoles


Number of posts : 139
Age : 73
Location : Columbus, Ohio
Points : 3593
Registration date : 2012-09-24

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PostSubject: Drive belt   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 17, 2013 9:58 am

It has been a great scooter and we haven't touched a thing on it since we have owned it.

Since I am going to have to open it up to install the new belt, I ordered the Big Ruckus variator b face. I understand that it is a direct replacement for the Reflex b face.

The Reflex b face has two different sets of ramps. The three long ramps have 31g weights and three short ramps have 21g weights for a total of 156g.

I believe that the Kmod involves removing the three 21g weights leaving a total of 91g. That is a pretty big weight drop. Acceleration is much improved but the engine runs near redline until the scooter reaches about 50 mph. Some people who have tried this mod eventually put some additional weights back in because they are not comfortable with running at those high rpm's for all their around town driving.

On the Big Ruckus b face, all six ramps are the same length. It comes from the factory with six 26g weights which is 156g total or the same as the Reflex.

I also ordered 21g sliders for a total of 126g. That is midway between the 91g of the Kmod and the 156g stock.

Hopefully the b face change should make the rpm increase linear and eliminate that midrange bog. The 21g sliders should increase the acceleration and the 126g total weight should make the rpm higher than stock but lower than the Kmod. Since the sliders add a slightly higher top gear they should also drop the freeway rpm a bit.

My hope is that the mileage will be about the same.
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transam86
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18, 2013 11:52 am

honda says 16000 miles change it. CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! my friend has 31000 ++ on his 07 and still going storng. its a d damn money maker for the dealer.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18, 2013 1:09 pm

My question to TransAm------how many miles have you ridden on rubber band drive scooters?? I am at 300,000----drive belt is weakest link period. Belt might go 20,000 on fresh bike, taken from new ridden these 20,000 miles in 6 months. But older bikes that have sat around, don't get much daily use?? Walking really sucks, getting run down, worse. Keeping the drive line fresh and good condition=expensive hobby,even when you do own work.

I have had new ReFlex.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18, 2013 9:19 pm

The belt is only $120 USD from Honda, and takes 20 minutes to change. You need to remove the clutch assembly every 4,000 miles anyhow to check clutch pad wear. Doing the belt at 16,000 when you do the clutch wear check is literally no extra work.

FWIW, my belt has about 75% life left (between new and wear limit according to Honda) at 5,000 miles. So 16,000 looks about right to stay on the right side of the wear curve. The weak spot for me was one roller the slightest bit flat spotted (10 thousandths of an inch or so deep) - other weights are all round. It isn't necessary to replace it, but why wouldn't I do the weights now (about $20 if using Honda parts)? Hardly expensive or time consuming. If you buy your bike new, the extra $2,000 you might spend over a low mile used bike will buy a lot of belt changes (16, or 256,000 miles of them). Gas is many times more expensive per mile, as likely is insurance.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Drive belt age   Drive belt age I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18, 2013 9:58 pm

Rollers will always give a flat spot.At every oil change remove the variator to inspect the belt and rotate the rollers 1/2 turn in order to create less of a flat spot in the same location ,the rollers will last longer before they replacing.
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