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no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeby DickO Yesterday at 11:42 pm

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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
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PostSubject: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18, 2019 4:58 pm

After a day looking at new bikes, including a 13 plate silver wing (4100, bit pricey) , I went to go to work on silver and thought will start her before I get dressed. Switched her on and pressed the starter, noticed no dash lights or headlamp and when she started there was no instruments either, noticed the imobiliser was flashng.Checked rear lights and indicators nothing working.

Didnt have time to check anything and it was raining when I got home, if its a fuse why does part of the ignition circuit work but not the lights, if it is a fuse hope its old age and nothing that takes months to trace and still not find it.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 18, 2019 11:30 pm

Assuming it was working fine when you last parked it, you might check (fiddle with) the start switch. The start switch has been known to have contact problem.

Tim
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 19, 2019 4:15 am

do you mean the ingnition switch ? not the starter button ?

Thats possible as the switch will provide power to all other circuits and the main feed will be just to engine (ignition, fuel, starter solenoid)

going out shortly to have a look as im late shift today but that does mean riding home in the dark so need to be sure i'll have lights
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 19, 2019 4:22 am

just looked on fleabay and the ignition switches for sale all seem to come with cdi unit, is the hiss connected to the cdi and the ignition switch and somehow coded ? Looks like a lot of work if it is, think will have a look at the switch and see if there is a broken corroded wire there first of all. Dont fancy swapping out everything, might need to sell her spares or repairs.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 19, 2019 9:14 am

I was referring to the start button. Never heard about any CDI unit on the Silverwing, but I'm not familiar with the HISS-related ignition switch. Maybe you can connive the Service Manager at your local Honda shop into copying the wiring diagram for your FJS for you. That way you'll have something to reference when checking the circuit(s).

A good spritz of electrical contact cleaner (or WD40 in a pinch) in the Start and Ignition switches contacts area might help. My 2¢.

Tim
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 19, 2019 6:24 pm

Thanks Tim, this morning I went to check what I could, switched on and the dash lit up as normal, instruments working but battery did not have enough in it to fire, still turning but not enough power to fire. Battery is old and the low charge state is because I have a camera with a charger hard wired, keep forgetting to unplug the charger on a friday night. Have it on charge and going to try it in the morning.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 3:44 pm

So this morning it started, initially no lights, switched on and off, lights came on with abs flashing, switched off and on again, all working. Left it running while I got dressed and set off, 5 miles later and the lights, instruments and speedo all went off, did not come back on all the way to work and has not come back on since on the way home. None of the fuses control all the lights and instruments. The engine was fine until late in the journey home, hard acceleration felt like it was gettting fuel starved or running out of electricity.

Going to try and get the ignition switch off and the cable unplugged to check continuity, cant think of anything else. Any suggestions ?
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Dibber
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Dibber

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 8:36 pm

You might want to have your battery checked or replaced. Battery Plus may be able to check battery for free.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 24, 2019 7:05 am

OK, been looking at the wiring diagram, through a magnifying glass old age has arrived, noticed there are three relays mentioned , main, ignition and fuel pump cutoff. These are all hidden behind left hand side panel. I also expected to see the regulator rectifier there but on later ABS it is the ecm unit. Swapped all three relays around and no change, engine still starts and no change on lights etc. According to the manual addendum it looks like the regulator rectifier is under the front cover so time to rebuild the rear bodywork and move to the front. from what I can see on the wiring diagram this is the first stop for the main wire after the ignition switch and then it goes to the 30amp fuse then the main relay. Want to see if the power is getting there and then leaving for the fuse box.

Cost of a pattern relay looks to be between £70 and £115, a £13 chinese knock off is also availabel and it might be tempting if not completely sure. My nearest Honda dealer is over 30 mile away and have no desire to do that journey with no signals, instruments or brake lights. Also dont fancy £100 an hour labour rates or whatever it is they charge for diagnostics these days. Also tempting is a spares or repair sale and go back to something naked and simple like a Royal Enfield 500 single, last week I was in a dealer that had a 13 plate silverwing @£4200 and they also had a brand new Royal Enfield for £4000. I bought the wing for year round riding and this last couple of years I've stopped riding in winter as am getting too old. An old scheel naked will do the job.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 24, 2019 7:29 am

Check the 3 yellow-wire stator-to-regulator/rectifier wire harness connector plug for a burnt connection.  The 12 ga wire plug is located behind the right passenger plug. They have been known to arc & burn on Hondas due to weak connection(s). The plug can be bypassed with suitable gauge wire.

Tim
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 24, 2019 4:15 pm

Tim, do you mean like the gold wing stator connection ? Did one of those on my 1100 aspncade before it went. By right plug do you mean the right hand glove box ?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 2974
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 24, 2019 7:05 pm

phils a winger wrote:
Tim, do you mean like the gold wing stator connection ? Did one of those on my 1100 aspncade before it went. By right plug do you mean the right hand glove box ?
 
AFAIK It's the same plug as in most big Hondas. But on the Silverwing, at least the FSC600's, that plug is located nearer the stator, not near the right cubby.

Tim
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 491
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 24, 2019 10:19 pm

Check the battery voltage with engine running should be 14.25 or so. If it's lower there is a charging system problem.

Sounds like ignition switch contacts are burnt. My 2$
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 25, 2019 4:15 pm

Thats all the panels off at last, yellow wires at reg/rectifier all look ok, relays are all ok as tried by swapping. Ran out of daylight before I could get my meter wired up. Gonna pull the nearside footrest wednesday night and have a look at the stator connections, check power at battery with engine running
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Rider
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Mech 1 twa

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeMon Mar 25, 2019 9:20 pm

Check the main harness ground also. Hard to tell from manual but it's on left side bolted to upper frame tube. A single bolt to frame with several wires joining at that point. A poor ground can cause all sort of problems. Above water pump area on frame.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 26, 2019 6:20 am

This morning I'd an hour to kill before my late shift, I removed the handlebars, instrument panel cover and instrument panel, put my meter on the battery and it shows 16v engine off, 17.5v engine running, thats high and thought this could be my problem, then I put the same meter on my car and that said 16v so looks like faulty meter but it is charging. Cant see any dodgy looking wires at all and the idea of checking the main earth point sounds like a plan, could try a jump lead to bypass the main earth as well.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 27, 2019 3:20 pm

Tonight before it got dark I removed the last panels, checked earth point and all OK no rust or corroded terminals, cant see any burning on yellow stator wires at stator or regulator, no sign of chafed wires or loose connections, cant remove ignition switch the screws feel like theyve been welded in, broke a newish screwdriver, head snapped clean off the screw driver, guess they use loctite and superglue combination. Have ordered a needle point test light will need to wait until that arrives before I can do any serious testing. Will continue to look and can check fuse box with a meter even if its not accurate. Could do with some suggestions guy's, this week has been the nest weather for a while, cold but dry and ive no bike to ride.
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Jim Caudill
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 27, 2019 3:55 pm

I think all I can do is offer encouragement. A couple of thoughts: often there is a voltage regulator for the instrument panel, I have had 2 of those fail in over 50 years of vehicle maintenance and operation. Secondly, the ignition switch has various terminals for circuits that are powered when in the "ON", "START", and "ACCESSORY" positions. Study the schematic and see if you can find other issues that are not working properly that share a common source of power. Intermittent problems can be a pain!
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 27, 2019 4:17 pm

Can you use a straight pin & an alligator clip to pierce some of the switch wires to check voltage?

Unfortunately, but to Jim Caudill's point, any Combination Meter voltage regulator is buried within the circuit board and not accessible.

FWIW I took my FSM to a local print shop and had them scan & print the wiring diagram to a 24" x 36" format. It's an immense help when tracing circuits.

Tim
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 31, 2019 2:50 pm

OK, update time, test light hasnt turned up yet but got a new meter, 13.5v at battery so thats better. traced harness connection for ignition switch, ignition off Red wire shows 13v, black/red and blue/red both show zero volts. Ignition on and all wires show 13v, so looks like switch is ok, thats a big relief. As i've injured/ damaged both knees doing all the stripping I think I'm gonna wait a few days for the test light to turn up and let my knees heal a bit, 2 days ago I needed a stick, today was able to walk without and get in the car easier so a few extra days wont harm.

Think next job is trace where the wire splits for the main relay and fuse box, cut off the wrapping and test the connection.
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The Bern
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The Bern

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 02, 2019 11:40 am

As mine was too old for lights on I have no personal experiance of this fault, but I can say with certainty that if the engine runs, then the problem is NOT h.i.s.s related.
I think Tim (hi bud) may have hit on a possible cause (the headlight interrupt switch) in an old thread ....

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Back tracking from the Lo beam hot wire (White) the circuit goes to the Dimmer switch. The Dimmer is fed by the Blue/White (Bu/W) wire which comes from the headlight interrupt switch on the Starter Switch. The interrupt switch is fed by Black/Red (Bl/R) wire which comes from the headlight fuse and also connects with the Lo Beam Relay and exits the relay as the White wire.

I hope I got that right. Sounds a bit confusing to me too. So check the Dimmer switch, the Interrupt switch function of the Starter Switch and do a continuity check from the Bl/R wire at the fuse block forward to the W wire at the headlight terminal. Pay particular attention to the wiring from the handlebar switches and where that wiring may come in contact with the steering stem when the handle bars move.

I hope this helps. Please let us know how you get on with this problem. We all benefit from feedback.

Tim

It may not answer your problem but it seems a good place to start looking if there are no obvious short circuits, bad connections, etc

Taken from ...

https://www.silverwing600.com/t8825-blowing-headlight-fuse
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 03, 2019 2:02 am

Think its unlikely to be the headlight interupter switch, in the past when the battery has been low (leaving the camera plugged in to the 12v socket usually) when the starter sswitch is pressed the headlight goes off but all the indicator lights and instruments are still lit. Knees are getting better so heopefully if its dry tonight I can disconnect the harness at the rear and pull it away from the frame and then cut the insulation. Remember in the 80's unwrapping a harness for the wire and there were wires where the insulation had been cut back and a wire soldered onto the original. Hoping when I cut back the insulation that I'll find one of these has broken and can then repair this.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 03, 2019 6:58 am

Good luck on this and if you can when the problem is found and it's a wire you might try acid free solder and shrink tubing for the repair.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04, 2019 4:19 pm

Hi guys, ive found the problem. Had disconnected tail light, ecu and injector wiring, was pulling the harness out to see which was best way out. Spotted a red wire with green stripe, corroded remains of a terminal on the end. Should have been a spade terminal that plugged into a plastic socket. Checked wiring diagram and it is a direct feed to main relay from battery, normally hidden behind the harness and relays. Cut it back and new terminal all lights working and engine.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04, 2019 4:33 pm

Had hoped to upload some photos but their on my phone and whenI did the above post it looked like it would allow photos but no photo's uploaded. Gonna try and email my photos from the phone to the computer.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 04, 2019 4:55 pm

That's great Good find on a hard to see area. Was a water tight connection or just regular plug type.
Every connection on a motorcycle should be but sadly some are not.

I was doing a valve adjustment on Yamaha FJR a few years ago. Under the tank there are many connections that aren't water tight and some were corroding. Cleaned them and sealed with some grease that Honda uses on cars to seal out moisture in door connectors and fuse box.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2019 1:12 am

no lights or dash 1no lights or dash 3no lights or dash 2Mech 1 twa, should have been part of a waterproof connector but 1 part has disapeared, shame i cant upload the photos, they seem to have been uploaded to a server so will need to investigate and try later. Just happy to have found it and the fix should see out the life of the bike, just need to put it all back together.


Last edited by phils a winger on Sun Apr 07, 2019 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : adding photos)
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2019 9:02 am

Good find thanks for the update. When reassembling electrical connections I've made a habit of using a lot of di-electric grease, on other parts a coating of that or battery post sealer helps with the corrosion.
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2019 2:17 pm

no lights or dash 2
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phils a winger
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
phils a winger

Number of posts : 173
Location : Lanark, UK
Points : 1897
Registration date : 2014-09-27

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2019 2:19 pm

Could anyone explain how you get photos to upload to the site, saved to servimg.com but despite saving url to upload an image nothing happens
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2019 5:23 pm

I'll try. I'm using a Linux computer which should be about the same with Windows but not sure how it works on a cell phone.
Looking at the box where you write your comments there are 6 smaller boxes at the top of it. In the fourth one click the left hand icon that will say, "Host An Image". Another box pops up that says, "Select Files". I usually select one at a time mainly because it's easier for me. When you click that another window pops up from your computer where you have your photos, at least for me anyhow. You single click the photo you want and then click "Open". There's a blue UP arrow to the right of your photo, click that and it will get it ready to send to this page. If you scroll down there will be 3 links. Right click the middle one and copy it. Then paste it into the comments you were typing and it will show up. I usually hit Enter a time or two just to get the link lower than my comments. You can click the "Preview" tab just below this box to see what it will look like if you want. Or just click send and it should show up.

no lights or dash Coborn21
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Dale N.
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Dale N.

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PostSubject: Re: no lights or dash   no lights or dash I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2019 5:24 pm

I had to do it as I was typing just so I could remember myself just how it goes.
Also Phil, you might have to save the photos to your computer in order to upload them here. I have some photos on Google Drive but don't know how the get them to upload. I usually save them to my computer first then do the uploads.

Hope that helps.
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