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 400 burger versus sh 300i

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sonuvabug
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woodworker
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PostSubject: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 08, 2013 9:39 am

Hear alot about burgmans, i was  thinking about a 400 burgman when i purchased my sh 300.But what put me off was its fat rear end and its wieght .Also its cost new with abs was around 6 grand wow.A friend got a old burgman ,i had a go what struck me was it felt like the transmission was having a hard time when pulling away.Comfy though and fantastic storage [unlike mine]Performance wise i dont think there would be anything in it.So does the 400 burger justify its large price tag is it that good compared too the honda sh 300 ,or that matter the piaggio beverly 350cc any thoughts people.Sleep scratch
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09, 2013 10:05 am

I believe sh 300, not in our market----but some experience with 400 /Burgmans(At least 42,000 miles, purchased 2 new ones). SilverWing 600 is probably better, but over $2000 more in this market. Clutch/belt/take off---both(Suzuki and Honda) are are about same....can be a little ruff---just nature of beast. Good things about Burgman, large underseat storage, US market electric plug BAD=BUFFETING, poor handling as speeds go up.... probably the worst handling under stress of the 10 new maxiscooters I have bought new since 1990. Secret=just go slower. On current Burgman Suzuki paid for complete drive line re-build---pulleys, rollers, rear outer bearing at 20,000 miles...they paid. now 32,000 miles and working fine. At40,000 I will buy another new belt

Burgman fine for SOLO trip----passenger too high up. Gas mileage good ---60.4 mpg US on recent 5960 mil trip, ridden hard to BC

Burgman does not use spin on oil filter

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rjdoles
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09, 2013 10:18 am

We currently have a 250 Reflex and Silverwing. I have not driven or owned a 400 Burg but we had a 400 Majesty. The 400's have adequate acceleration for most any situation, good wind protection, great storage space, great fuel economy (55 mpg) and able to cruise easily at 70 mph.

Had our Majesty not gotten totaled while my wife was riding it, we would still have it but then that is how I came to buy the Silverwing.

If I was considering a midsize scooter now, it would probably be the 300 Honda Forza. It is $6k but it has ABS, fuel injection and about 5 more horsepower than our Reflex. We love the agility of the 380 lb Reflex but the acceleration above 50 mph is pretty slow. The Reflex strains to maintain 70 mph especially into a headwind. The extra 5 hp would solve that problem.

The Forza looks a lot like a reincarnation of the Reflex. Actually the Reflex was the NSS250 model and the Forza is the NSS300 so I guess that it is an updated Reflex and Honda chose to give it a new name when the introduced it.

This is just my two cents.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 3:53 am

Hi john do not get that initial lag ,nowhere near as bad as my friends burgman .Mind you mine only wieghs 165kgs as opposed too 200 ish for the burger. I checked the price of the 400 suzuki on the road here with a.b.s around £6399,the forza £4499 with a.b.s. dont know what that would equate too in dollars. I have heard a few horror stories of suzuki burgman transmissions going [pete tong]= wrong.Oh i do like spin off oil filters by the way ,thanks for your thoughts john be safe.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 4:08 am

Hi rj ,the sh in my opinion a better bike than the forza .Had a test ride on the forza[ left a review on here somewhere].Dont know what ponies the burgman kicking out but i expect more than the new forza.85mpg on the sh everyday riding,kicks out 26 ponies, the forza around 24 but feels like 20 when you ride it.Told the honda manager my initial misgivings ,and he said would report it back too honda as i was first customer who effectively has a bike with the same motor in ,as the forza.Have a good day rj thanks for your 2 cents worth, go steady.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 5:21 am

woodworker wrote:
I have heard a few horror stories of suzuki burgman transmissions going [pete tong]= wrong.
The horror stories you refer to are related to the more mechanically complex transmission on the 650 Burgman. Personally I think a few isolated cases have done the rounds on the maxi forums and have been greatly exaggerated in the telling.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 10:44 am

Thanks for that meldrew .
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DanB
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 12:11 pm

I owned a 2003 Burgman 400 and found it be a fine scooter. If it wasn't for my wife complaining about wind buffeting (even after windshield replacement) and how uncomfortable the seating was (too wide)", I'd still be riding it. Traded up to a Goldwing for passenger comfort however wife doesn't want to do any more road trips. So I'm back to looking at maxi scooters again and specifically the SW.
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 4:14 pm

I basically copied and pasted this from a previous response I posted (Burgman 400 vs SilverWing 600) . I believe it still holds true regarding answering your question.

We have a SW and Burg 400 in the garage right now. Rode the K4 Burg 400 for 4 years then switch to a K5 SW 2 seasons ago.

The SW is slightly better for stability at high speeds and for the extra power when needed (usually not often). Fuel mileage is not great ~ 45 mpg.

Love the 400. It's almost as fast, can cruise at 125 km all day long, is lighter and better on fuel. Very easy to handle in parking lot situations and you can ride it hard (twisties etc.) and it responds very well ... better than the SW.

IMHO, both are equally capable for your needs. If you plan to do a fair amount of 2 up riding (more than 10%), I'd lean towards the SW. Otherwise, the 400 will serve your needs very well.

~ sonuvabug ~

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PHXScooterBill
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 5:16 pm

I never had an SH300, but I have owned both a Helix 250 and a Burgman 400 prior to my S-Wing 600.  I loved the Helix but always wished they'd up the cc's to 300, so I'd guess the SH would fit that bill, along with the Honda reliability. That said, I'm not a fan of the retro scooter/moped look of the SH and many Kymco bikes.
The Burgman 400 was a fantastic bike to own, and had more than enough power for the conditions at the time. It was definitely better to maneuver for my size frame than the SW600 was until I got used to it.  I do remember however, that when I asked the Suzuki dealer why my 2005 wasn't getting the same gas mileage as others on the BUSA forum, he noted that my top box, and Givi saddlebags substantially cut my aerodynamics down.  That is why, on the Silverwing, which has even less gas economy, I rarely ever go all out with extra luggage unless I need to.
As a side point, when I had the B400, I had patches of the same material as the Givi t427 bags embroidered with the words "Burgman 400" and attached to each bag so it looked like the bags were stock with the bike.  Then when I bought the Silverwing, I had new patches made up that say "Silver Wing 600" with a light silverish color on the same black patch background for the same "stock bag" look, so when the side nameplate is covered by the bags one can still see the name and cc's. If anybody wants the old B400 ones PM me for them.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 5:54 pm

46 mpg is the worst mileage I have ever gotten on  my Silverwing. That was using winter blend with 10% ethanol in the city. On summer blend with 10% ethanol not in the city I have gotten 57 mpg and 60 mpg using non ethanol.(US gal.)
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 9:06 pm

LVScooterBill wrote:
he noted that my top box, and Givi saddlebags substantially cut my aerodynamics down.  That is why, on the Silverwing, which has even less gas economy, I rarely ever go all out with extra luggage unless I need to.
I also have a set of Givi T-427 saddlebags. On the open road they really do add to frontal area drag. I also only use them as a last resort if my top box and tank bag are full.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 2:18 am

I use the Givi T421 expandable soft bags which were originally bought for a trip to Northern Germany with Mrs M back when I rode a 650 Burgman. I lengthened the straps to allow for the extra width of the Burgmans rear seat so the straps went under the seat not over it. The bags also fit very easily onto the Silver Wing.

The 421’s are expandable they can hold 28/37 litres but have never used them zipped out to hold their maximum capacity, or fitted the PVC rain covers that have their own storage pocket at the rear of each bag.

I can't say that I noticed any frontal drag when the loaded bags were on the Burgman or the Silver Wing, both scooters easily coped with high speed cruising and there was no noticeable increase in fuel consumption I was aware of. If I used the 421’s zipped out to maximum capacity then I'm sure things would change.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 7:58 am

Sonuvabug , never ride two up mrs woodworker hates two wheels too [dangerous] and no heater .Me i love them ever since my dad used too take me on his  triumph speedtwin in the late sixties,guess its in the blood.  Smile I do believe the burgman a good bike ,but wether any better than the up to date competition who can say?And that huge price tag. Thanks for your views ,keep scootin.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 8:10 am

Scooter bill, the sh ugly no doubt about it .Some guy on youtube said it looked like a gay dolphin jawdrop Whatever they looklike .But not having all those body panels =manoverability and tight turning circle a bonus.I like the idea of the homemade patches with a logo on very clever .On a safety note i have had many a car driver pull out on me thinking i am on a moped due too the styling of the sh glad i got a.b.s. disbelief
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PHXScooterBill
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 1:14 pm

On my Helix I had Malossi rollers and clutch installed and that helped make the bottom end take off a lot better. I never noticed the Burgman 400 as slow from a stoplight, but I had a Dr Pulley  HIT clutch and sliders installed anyway and the thing took off from a stop way better still.  I don't really feel I need to install one on the Silverwing, but who knows, maybe by the time I need a new clutch, I'll go with the Dr Pulley.  I already have the 22 gram sliders in the variator though.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 3:19 pm

Not big on mechanical mods scooter bill, no knowledge on scooter transmissions.And my local dealer charges  the equilvant  of $75 a hour . affraid Dont know if transmission upgrades popular here in u.k. Embarassed
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PHXScooterBill
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 8:35 pm

woodworker wrote:
Not big on mechanical mods scooter bill, no knowledge on scooter transmissions.And my local dealer charges  the equilvant  of $75 a hour . affraid Dont know if transmission upgrades popular here in u.k. Embarassed
I totally understand.  I was only referring to the aforementioned comments about the B400's slower off the line performance being able to be upgradeable by a mod.  I too am not able to perform moderate to complicated mechanical work.  
Most shops I've been to here in the States charge from $80 to $95 per hour, so for me your $75 is cheap.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 12, 2013 4:31 am

Does sound cheap bill, maybe i got my pounds to dollars wrong ha.
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marco
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeSat Oct 12, 2013 1:38 pm

on my first sh 300 I installed a j-costa variator, WOW what an improvement , smoother and quicker exeleration, about 200 quid, but worth it .(in my opinion)
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13, 2013 8:17 am

Heard of that mod marco ,did you fit it yourself?Did it make any difference too the topend speed?What about mpg as well.
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marco
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13, 2013 1:08 pm

I cant comment on top speed as I never really rode over 75mph on the sh, the mpg wasnt really any different ,but because it revs a little higher youll probably use a very little more fuel, but trust me its worth it.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 13, 2013 1:14 pm

marco wrote:
on my first sh 300 I installed a j-costa variator, WOW what an improvement , smoother and quicker exeleration, about 200 quid, but worth it .(in my opinion)
I used a J Costa on my Silverwing for 1 riding season.
The acceleration improvement was eye-popping, but of course at the expense of higher rpm and increased fuel consumption. Cruising at 110 k/ph was almost 1000 rpm higher than with the Dr. Pulley sliders.
The other downside besides the cost of the J Costa was the pin wear. The replacement pins wear out quickly, and if they ever self destruct, which is not unheard of, they can take the belt casing and front and rear drive and driven faces with them. That would be a very expensive repair.
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woodworker
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PostSubject: Re: 400 burger versus sh 300i   400 burger versus sh 300i I_icon_minitimeTue Oct 15, 2013 7:07 am

So in conclusion people is the burger 400 any better than the sh 300i? ANSWER i think is a horses for courses scenario:We ride what suits us ,and what suits us we ride.We all ride what we like and fills our own needs too a degree.My needs mainly city riding and a bit of high speed dual carriageways suits the sh too the ground, i suspect the burger more comfortable better suited for lazy relaxing jaunts . sunny Ride safe everyone.
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