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 Winter Gas = Won't Start

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bigbird
Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4416
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Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
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PostSubject: Winter Gas = Won't Start   Winter Gas = Won't Start I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21, 2011 11:01 pm

There are three Silverwings here in the Philadelphia area that won't start. They are all cranking fine but the engine won't fire. This problem has just occured as the weather has turned cold and also as the local gas has been reformulated to the winter blend.

I strongly suspect that the problem may be that the cold has caused the fuel (in the tank) to seperate & stratify. If that's the case then maybe 'stuff' has blocked the fuel pump, or possibly the 'fuel' that is getting through the pump is too contaminated to fire.

All three of the scoots have purchased fuel from different locations -so it can't be a bad fuel from a single source problem. The scoot having the most recent failure has had Seafoam added to each tankful for several months. Two of the scoots are kept in relatively unheated garages. While the third scoot is kept in a covered, but unheated and open, outside parking garage. That scoot developed the problem at the end of December.

It also seems to me that if this is a fuel problem brought on by the cold weather then similar problems would also be happening to snowmobiles.

Anyone out there have some input on this?

Tim
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bigbird
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Winter Gas = Won't Start Empty
PostSubject: Re: Winter Gas = Won't Start   Winter Gas = Won't Start I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21, 2011 11:06 pm

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
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slava777
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Winter Gas = Won't Start Empty
PostSubject: Re: Winter Gas = Won't Start   Winter Gas = Won't Start I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 21, 2011 11:28 pm

I would recommend to add Stabil or any stabilizer to prevent fuel breakdown and ride it a short bit to mix the fuel in the tank. Also, keep as little air as possible in the gas tank to prevent condensation.
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"Hi Yo"
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Winter Gas = Won't Start 510-80


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Winter Gas = Won't Start Empty
PostSubject: Re: Winter Gas = Won't Start   Winter Gas = Won't Start I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 22, 2011 12:30 am

Whats a snowmobile? Just another case of big government knowing what is best for us. My two cents and woth every bit of it.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Winter Gas = Won't Start Empty
PostSubject: Re: Winter Gas = Won't Start   Winter Gas = Won't Start I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 22, 2011 4:07 pm

bigbird wrote:
I've heard of this happening. You can probably blame the cold weather for causing water condensation in the gas. The extra water now causes the gas in your tank to stratify or separate. The water sinks to the bottom of your tank along with the alcohol part of the E10 gasoline. Your fuel pump is sucking up water and alcohol, but not gasoline. My suggestion is to syphon out all the fuel from the tank and try refilling with fresh fuel.

I tend to agree with your diagnosis & treatment, but
if that were the case, wouldn't you think that all you folks up there in snowmobile & Quad country would have had this problem too?

Just asking...hoping for more insight.

Tim
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exavid
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Winter Gas = Won't Start Empty
PostSubject: Re: Winter Gas = Won't Start   Winter Gas = Won't Start I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 23, 2011 2:28 am

Might be water on the spark plugs. Sometimes when cranking a cold engine if the humidity is high the plugs can short out due to moisture on the electrodes. I've had that happen a few times in Alaska with small engines. It could be crud in the fuel tank especially with ethanol in the fuel. It could also be a slightly weak battery. If the bike is unusually cold the load on the electrical system might be too high for enough voltage on the ignition system to develop a hot spark. A cold stiff engine takes a lot more current from the battery for the starter to turn over not leaving a lot of power for the rest of the bike's systems. A little heat on the bike might get it going. Once it's running riding it long enough to get the temperature up to normal and keeping it there for awhile might help. One other thing that helps is to keep the tank filled. An empty tank collects condensation resulting in water in the bottom of the tank. Aircraft that are tied down in the weather always have full tanks to prevent that very thing.
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trouble1100
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Winter Gas = Won't Start Empty
PostSubject: Re: Winter Gas = Won't Start   Winter Gas = Won't Start I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 23, 2011 1:55 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
I tend to agree with your diagnosis & treatment, but
if that were the case, wouldn't you think that all you folks up there in snowmobile & Quad country would have had this problem too?

Just asking...hoping for more insight.

Early December I had trouble starting my Honda Rancher due to fuel starvation. I ended up rebuilding the carburetor that was contaminated with a white pasty crap.

Research revealed the white pasty crap is the aluminum in carburetor corroding to aluminum hydroxide, aluminum's version of rust. If left as is the aluminum parts will die a slow death.

There are two mechanisms that occur with ethanol. Both mechanisms are a result of the ethanol absorbing water. The more ethanol in the fuel, the more water there will be in the fuel, especially after storage. Water causes aluminum parts to corrode. It also causes corrosion particles to clog fuel filters, fuel systems, and damage engine components. Aluminum hydroxide turns to aluminum oxide with heat (think combustion chamber) that is used as an abrasive in sandpaper.

The second mechanism that can occur with the use of ethanol based fuel and aluminum is galvanic corrosion. The corrosion will be worse for aluminum if other metals are present such as copper that is in brass fittings and jets or in the aluminum alloy. Gasoline fuel is not conductive, but ethanol and water will conduct electricity.

The only problem on fuel-injected machines is fuel separation in the tank since no fuel is stored as it is in a carburetor float bowl. To avoid this I now use a fuel stabilizer with gas drier when the machines are put on hiatus for the season.

http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/default.aspx

The drier will bond with water and gather at the bottom of the tank. When you want to ride again you can remove it either by draining whats at the bottom or sucking it out with something like a turkey baster.

Sadly our 250 Reflex will not start and have had trouble starting this past year. I drained the fuel bowl, drained and refilled the tank with treated fuel and will rebuild the carburetor when time allows.
I’m happy to say both Wings and the Bergman start and idle, the Rancher is running like a champ and doing its winter duty.

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Last edited by trouble1100 on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Winter Gas = Won't Start Empty
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