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bigbird
Sweendog
honda_silver
DennisB
ozbar
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ozbar
Scooter Rider
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
Points : 4368
Registration date : 2010-08-15

Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 7:19 am

There's only one post on this subject within the forum that I can find..apologies if other posts exsist.

I've only put 50 miles on my 09' S.W (it had 471 on it when i bought it from Honda last week) and already I've found something that most people are putting down to either: The grip, or how you hold the throttle.

At slow speeds, E.G moving along behind slow traffic, you can feel the bike ever so slightly surging forward, like it can't settle and its wants to move up a gear. The surging seems to start over 10 mph and is prevalent throughout upto about 30/35 mph..Somebody also mentioned the fuel injection system but I'm no real mechanic so maybe someone can comment on that. My backside literally jiggles back and forward if I try and hold say 25 mph for any period of time. Now I also have a restrictor kit on this bike which was fitted by my Honda dealer, as I'm restricted to 33bhp for two years as I did my test on my previous bike (Honda s wing 125cc...which held slow speeds behind traffic perfectly), but I don't know if that has much to do with it or not?? My throttle seems fine and theres no play or slackness in it.

I love this bike, but living and driving in Edinburgh, (Scotland) I have to contend with alot of slow moving traffic at busy times and this surging thing is going to bug me off this bike and onto another and I don't want that...please help
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 7:34 am

Hi ozbar,

I have never heard of this happening before. I wonder if it's that device the dealer installed. Do you get out on the highways much?
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 7:39 am

I did the first day i got it but i was so excited to get my new bike, that it wasn't something I was looking for...what do you suggest?
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 8:42 am

Put the Silverwing on the center stand, while standing lightly apply the throttle. Check if problem still occurs. Check if hand position or angle changes behavior.

Ask the dealer to re-inspect the installation ... and get some details about the device where it plugs in and how it controls the HP.
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Sweendog
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 9:21 am

I've never encountered that feeling on my '04 Wing. I'm not sure how that restricter kit works, but that could have something to do with it. You have to ride a crippled bike for 2 years? Sheesh, they've got some funky rules over there... Crying or Very sad
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 9:39 am

So i tryed sticking it on its centre stand and revved it up to about 15/20mph. What i did notice is that as the back wheel was spinning, i was getting a sudden vibration every so often...it might be some centifugal force to do with a spinning wheel or something i don't know, but i took it out for a ride and it felt ok. I tryed holding the throttle right at the end with my hand mostly on the bar end and i could still feel ever so slightly this rocking motion of the engine not wanting to settle into a gear ( I was riding the bike during this point). Do you think the restriction kit might have something to do with this?

Sweendog i hear you. I think the problem was that too many people were passing their test on little 125cc twist and go's, and then buying some monster 1200cc and killing themselves because they wern't used to the extra power..so they desided to go down this route. If i had passed on a 500cc geared bike i could have bought anything my heart desired. But because i passed using my 125cc i have to be restricted.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 9:48 am

ozbar, If you ever find or locate this device on your scooter, besure to take some pictures and post them.... let us know how it's hooked up. cyclops
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
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Registration date : 2010-08-15

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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 10:13 am

This is general fitting instructions for the restrictor..i have the throttle restriction (Kit F)... what do you think??

www.fiinternational.com/fitting-and-care.asp

then download the pdf (this is what it says about my kind of restrictor)

"The basics of the kit is that a device is attached to the side of the injection bodies, which stops the throttle cam from opening fully. This is normally combined with restriction blades that go into the airbox or sometimes the inlet manifolds"
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DennisB
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Number of posts : 2777
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:13 am

I think it SUCKS!!!!!!
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Sweendog
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Number of posts : 154
Location : South New Jersey
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PostSubject: Horrible!   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:14 am

Cripple the ride, AND pay through the schnozzle for it. Sad
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bigbird
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Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 2400
Location : Winnipeg
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Registration date : 2010-05-02

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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:18 am

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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Old Limey
Silver Wing Expert
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:20 am

Just a thought Ozbar, but, I have only been riding a scooter for a few
months. I have been riding bikes over 50yrs.
The thing i found puzzling was, at 15mls or less the drive is taken away
and it seems you are in neutral. Is this what you mean?
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ozbar
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Scooter Rider
ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
Points : 4368
Registration date : 2010-08-15

Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:25 am

Suggestions????
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
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PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:27 am

The bike is still in gear, as the revs are at about 2500rpm
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edbancro
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Number of posts : 160
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Registration date : 2009-10-30

Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:28 am

I suppose you'd get in big trouble if it just happened to "fall off" or otherwise disappear...? Wink
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bigbird
Silver Wing Guru
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Number of posts : 2400
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:29 am

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
Points : 4368
Registration date : 2010-08-15

Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:29 am

I can't Bigbird...well not legally anyhoo. If i have a crash and the insurance company checks to see that a restrictor kit is fitted, and its not there then I'm in deep doodoo. It would be interesting to see how it rides without it and if the kit is my prob??
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
Points : 4368
Registration date : 2010-08-15

Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:30 am

My honda shop could probably do the third option...what would that do??
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edbancro
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Number of posts : 160
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 11:47 am

ozbar wrote:
My honda shop could probably do the third option...what would that do??

I agree with bigbird - if they didn't synchronize when they installed, then they should have. Synchronizing the throttle makes sure all the cylinders are sucking in the same amount of air for any given throttle position. If they're not, then it can make the engine feel rough and underpowered (since one cylinder is contributing less than the other(s)). It should be done any time you do something that might throw it off: like remove the throttle bodies, adjust valves, mess with the jets (on carb'ed bikes), or if you are forced to cut down the power.

Since we have a twin, that makes it easier to synchronize the throttles, and you can actually do it without vacuum gauges. I did it lots of times on my Ninja EX250 using the two-bottle "tool" described on this page, and it worked great every time (which was good since I was always fiddling with the stupid carbs...). I don't know how easy it is to access everything to do this on the SWing, but in general it's something than can be done on a twin by someone with average (or maybe just slightly above) tinkering skills.
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
Points : 4368
Registration date : 2010-08-15

Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 12:11 pm

I would imagine the first thing i should do is call them and ask if that is something that they would have done, once the restrictor was fitted. If it hasn't been done i should insist it is done and take the bike down. If it has been done, I'm still going to take it in, and get them to re-look at the install.

Anything else..??
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bigbird
Silver Wing Guru
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Number of posts : 2400
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 12:21 pm

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 12:33 pm

The throttle restrictor doesnt restrict my performance really. I was driving yesterday at 87mph. The Lower and mid performance arn't affected i don't think. As far as i'm aware the restictor kit just doesn't allow me to go flat out. I road a 125cc s wing before this...believe me theres no comparison..
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bigbird
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 12:40 pm

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
Location : Edinburgh, Scotland
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 12:46 pm

which is making me think maybe the restrictor is something that just stops me using all of the throttle cable...instead of conected to the engine in some way, like edbancro mentioned...
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bigbird
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 12:49 pm

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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ozbar
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ozbar


Number of posts : 18
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 1:03 pm

Mmm
When i thought that some sort of maintenance hadn't been done related to the restrictor kit...i was sort of please as i knew it was just a case of rectifying it. Now it could turn out that its simply a screw stoping my throttle cable extending all the way. (An expensive screw at £170) in which case its something else causing this surging....
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bigbird
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 1:19 pm

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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ozbar
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ozbar


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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 28, 2010 1:27 pm

thanks to everybody for their help and advice. Once i find out what the problem is i'll post it here just in case it happens again..ride safe
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ozbar
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 09, 2010 10:17 am

So the bike went into Honda today, and after two techs took her out for a ride they both reckon that theres nothing wrong with her (read: Its all in my head ) Sad The salesman who sold her to me is going to give me a third opinion when he takes it out for a spin tomorrow, before i pick it up in the morning. So what do I do?? Do i conceed that the bike has a few niggles and just get on with it or do I sell her, (probably losing £500-£1000 even though i've not done 100 miles on her yet)....
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bigbird
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeThu Sep 09, 2010 11:33 am

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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ozbar
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 10, 2010 4:01 pm

hey BigBird
I've been assured that the restriction is simply a throttle stop, theres no connection to the engine in anyway...so i've been told.

Can i ask u something..

Next time ur out on your bike can u tell me wot u feel when ur holding say 30 mph on a straight. Any jerkyness, jiggles? or just very smooth. maybe its just me. The tech told me because its a CVT bike and not a traditional geared bike i'm bound to feel slight variations. Thanks again for all your help.
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bigbird
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 10, 2010 10:20 pm

x


Last edited by bigbird on Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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Sweendog
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 11, 2010 9:04 am

ozbar wrote:
hey BigBird
Next time ur out on your bike can u tell me wot u feel when ur holding say 30 mph on a straight. Any jerkyness, jiggles? or just very smooth. maybe its just me. The tech told me because its a CVT bike and not a traditional geared bike i'm bound to feel slight variations. Thanks again for all your help.

I run steady at all speeds, I have a long run down a street on the way to work that has a 30mph, 35mph and 45mph zones, and I notice no surging while traveling in any of them.
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GaryL
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 11, 2010 4:48 pm

Mine is smooth at those speeds as long as the road is just as smooth. If there are any ripples or bumps, then it will appear to surge because I cannot hold the touchy throttle steady enough under those circumstances. No
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MikeO
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 11, 2010 5:01 pm

Mine, too; at 30KPH over the cobbles in Bruges it's impossible to operate the throttle smoothly.
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Guest
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Silverwing Surging Empty
PostSubject: Re: Silverwing Surging   Silverwing Surging I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 11, 2010 9:02 pm

I have 49k on my 2004 swing. I did have surging as you at the same speeds. I did two things at the same time. I put in stp gas treatment ( fuel injection cleaner ) and i went to a middle octane gas. The surging went away and I'm back to regular gas now. Its cheap and easy to try, let me know if it helps.
Paul
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