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 Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later

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MikeO
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hot shoe
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29, 2010 2:42 am

[quote="bigbird"]I changed out my final drive oil at 1500 km, way before the recommended changeout. Two observations:
1) The oil level was not full, because when I removed the upper check/fill bolt nothing overflowed out.
2) On removing the lower drain bolt, what came out was unexpectedly dirty, with lots of visible particles suspended in the oil. I would call it almost silt-like.

On that note, I would recommend to all Swing owners that they do their first final drive oil changeout when you do your first oil change. It's really cheap insurance to make sure the final drive lasts a long time. ]I used Shell synthetic 75W-90 gear oil.[/quote

"I used Shell synthetic 75W-90 gear oil." Since the shop manual calls for 10W-30, I hope you aren't making a big mistake with that gear oil. Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later Confused
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GaryL
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29, 2010 10:30 am

bigbird wrote:

If Honda doesn't sell a gear oil, they'll sell the next best thing that will do the job, in this case their own 10W-30 motor oil.

Honda does sell a gear oil. Anyone who has ever changed the final drive oil in a GoldWing knows that they use Pro Honda Shaft Drive oil (Hypoid gear oil SAE 80W90 or it's equivilent). I have no idea what the stresses in an aircraft engine are, but I suspect that they are far greater than in the final drive of a SWing. I'm sure that the heavier oil will do no harm, but the extra friction of the heavier oil will create extra heat and drag, causing in some small way a reduction of your fuel mileage.

As in all things, everyone should do what makes them comfortable, but I for one beleive that the Honda engineers are pretty smart cookies, and they make their recommendation for a good reason, and I doubt if it is to sell motor oil.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeThu Jul 29, 2010 10:32 am

bigbird wrote:
1) The oil level was not full, because when I removed the upper check/fill bolt nothing overflowed out.

That is the way it is suppose to be.

When you change the oil you are suppose to leave the check/fill bolt out till all the "new" overfill oil is drained out .. otherwise you would overfill the final drive.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30, 2010 5:39 am

I asked a friend of mine for his comments. He has owned and fettled many bikes and scooters and knows them inside out - he owns currently an X9500 and a Nexus 500 (this replaces a T-Max).
He regularly completely disassembles his scooters for overhaul and is a mine of information.
Here are his comments:

It depends on the cut of the gears and the pressure loading on the teeth as they mesh.
Cut appropriately as per for example the old mini, where the gears were in the sump, they are perfectly fine lubed with ordinary (mineral at the time) engine oil. Otherwise most gearboxes would use hypoid 80 or 90 gear oil.
A lot of modern cars now though use the much thinner automatic transmission fluid in their manual gearboxes.
The thinner the oil the less drag. Also being almost a hydraulic oil ATF will take huge pressure loads. You would think that a thicker oil would give better protection but that is not the case as it's also slower to move around and gets churned up more and is slower to settle back into the 'sump'.
I would guess for the small relatively low torque scooter final drives, any oil will be OK. If we were talking a manual primary gearbox as in most bikes, then they generally are lubed by the engine oil. This would probably indicate that the 'standard gear tooth profile' generally in use by the motorcycle industry as a whole will be appropriate for this type of oil, and Suzuki, Honda and Yamaha in particular will more than likely retain this standard in their scooter final drives.


I found this most interesting and reassuring.
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jdeereanton
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30, 2010 10:18 am

bigbird wrote:
...I didn't use Honda oil (never have, never will), as it is not anything special. Engine oil is made by oil companies, not by motorcycle companies.
I agree - as does Honda - it's just a label, Honda does not have refineries, but they do have contracts with oil companies to label some oil company products.

bigbird wrote:
...There is a reason they specify Shell lubrication. I figure I can't go wrong with their products for car or bike.
I also work in aerospace and have experience in the realm of my following statement. Often the reason a company stays with a product is something like this: We've already spent the money necessary to qualify this product and to change now would require additional expense. The current product works so why spend the money to switch?

Oil that is clean and conforms to the manufacturers specification is the best oil you can use. Or the following may apply: "The very best oil to use is: (Insert the brand name of your favorite here)." This is now a true statement, for you. Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later Icon_lol
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edbancro
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30, 2010 12:49 pm

I had 2 mid-80s Accords with manual transmissions, and both of them used regular 10W-30 (or thereabouts) engine oil in the transmissions. I never had a problem with those cars, so that's another reason I've personally been comfortable with using engine oil in the SWing. I also like not having to go out and buy different (and more expensive) oil just to do the change on the final drive Smile
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crahar
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 30, 2010 12:56 pm

Back many moons ago when I was a youth There were friends at the local drag strip who used automatic transmission fluid in their manual transmissions and swore by it.
Craig
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 02, 2010 11:30 pm

My two bobs worth! ( USA residents please read as 2c)

When I owned my Range Rover, I made the mistake of using the Hypoid 90 grade gear oil in the gearbox. Luckily I mentioned it to a fellow RR owner and found out that this beast only could run on regular motor oil as the thicker oil would put excessive strain on the oil pump and the sulpher in the hypoid would mix with condensate to form sulphuric acid which in turn ate out the brass/bronze bearings. This was borne out with further discussions with RR mechanics.
The hypoids have a distinctive "sulpher" smell.
Big differences viscosity and or ingredients in recommendations by the OEM's is there for a reason.
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later   Check and change that final drive oil sooner than later I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 05, 2010 7:01 am

Thanks Jeff, did mine today, your pictorial saved me heaps of time.
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