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 Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing

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model28a
ronjr009
hot shoe
YammaPapa
The Scootist
buddy19520
GaryL
john grinsel
MikeO
J.R.
stevemorris0370
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stevemorris0370
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PostSubject: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 7:19 am

Hi, my name is Steve, I recently purchased a Silverwing 600 2009 model with 2800 miles on clock.
I previously had a Yamaha Tmax 500 scoot so am experienced with riding automatics.
A characteristic of my Silverwing is that it seems to be constantly surging whilst riding, this is quite slight but noticeable and can only be described as the effect you would get if you kept braking slightly when moving, this occurs at all speeds and the effect is constant at all times.
The bike is easy to push with no sticking or interference from the brakes.
Any Ideas or comments welcome.
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J.R.
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 7:46 am

Hello Steve, I have had the same surge problem. I don't know if this will help or not but my grip on the throttle was to tight....any bump in the road would create a surge because the throttle was very touchy. A wrist rest was added and it helped a lot.

Welcome to the forum, J.R.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 7:55 am

A problem here, too, especially when riding at 18MPH (the speed limit in Bruges) on cobbles. Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  Icon_rolleyes
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: surge   Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 8:23 am

Having owned both TMAX and 09 SilverWing. The surge is not normal, but could so simple as described above to fuel injection problem.

First make sure throttle is free and not binding, cable adjusted to little or no free play, too much play taken out of throttle cable engine will speed up as bars are turned to full lock....with bike on centerstand.
Cable/throttle free, etc...then fuel injection or at least fuel problem. Hard to figure out when you don't know maint. riding history of you bike.

TMAX does run a little smoother at slow speeds than does SilverWing. Each had its good points.

John Grinsel
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stevemorris0370
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 10:08 am

Thanks for the feedback JR & John, sounds plausible, I will investigate the throttle.
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GaryL
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 4:12 pm

Steve, I also have a new 2009 SilverWing, and have noticed the same thing. It appears for me at speeds less than 35mph. I have a reflex that does not do this. So far I have chalked it up to a VERY sensitive throttle, made worse by bumpy roads. At higher speeds, I do not notice any problem.
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buddy19520
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 4:54 pm

I have noticed that it is hard to maintain a steady speed over bumps because my hand twitches the throttle. The Swing has a lot of motor that responds quickly and strongly, plus the throttle has almost no resistance to twisting open or closed.

This is not a problem on my 150cc machine, mostly because the engine does not respond to quick twists of the throttle. It will rev a lot, but doesn't make you go any faster right away. Smile

Recently, I installed a Vista Cruise Control (cc-3 model). It fits between the kill switch module and throttle. It tends to bind up the throttle just a little bit, so that you don't get jerky over bumpy roads. The throttle does not snap closed completely like it used to, but it slows down a lot when you take your hand off the throttle. Overall, its an improvement.
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The Scootist
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 5:08 pm

If you keep the throttle cranked wide open you will not have the constant up and down surging, but it will keep you pinned back in your seat...
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YammaPapa
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 5:10 pm

Hello Stevemorris

I also used to have a TMax and now my wife owns a Swing. Her Swing also surges. Like John, I tightened up the throttle cable to remove slack. I ground off the ridge at the end of the throttle grip. This makes gripping both the fixed bar-end, at the same time as the throttle, more comfortable. This prevents surging (I found my arm bouncing up and down when hitting road irregularities). Removing the lip also helps to slip on/off a Cramp Buster (throttle paddle).

Do you miss your T-Max at times? (I do!)

YammaPapa
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hot shoe
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 5:46 pm

If you guys that have the problem are still running those "pencil grip" OEM grips, that could be the problem with surges. They are so skinny that the slightest twitch is transferred to the amount of throttle applied. I have always immediately dumped the OEM grips for Kuryakin ISO's. I have never experienced the surge problem on my Mean Streak or the S' wing. Besides being way more comfortable due to the slight increase in outside circumference of the grip, the ISO's seem to provide much more control of the bike generally. If anyone decides to try the Kuryakins,be sure to order the 7/8" diameter, not the 1" size. Most scoots have 7/8" bars
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ronjr009
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 6:42 pm

I don't know that I've experienced the surging that you're talking about. I do know that as soon as I let off, even for the tiniest fraction of a second the bike slows very quickly and the same can be said for getting back on the throttle as well. One thing I did to alleviate the the issue of discomfort due to my hands being vibrated was to install grip puppies. By increasing the circumfrence of the handles, it made it a little easier to manipulate the throttle and therefore a little less likely to "blip" or "deblip/momentarily let off the throttle". So in a way, I was able to help 2 things at once although I was mainly doing this to reduce vibration so I wouln't have to deal with the sensation of vibrating hand syndrome.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 19, 2010 10:12 pm

Phillip I also have a Vista Cruise Control and when I first installed it I had to twist the throttle back.I went for a 700 mi. day and sometime during the day it must have wore in,because when we got to the campground it worked fine. Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  Icon_cheers Leave go now and it snaps back jest like when new. Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  393798 But now I am in the habit of twisting the throttle back.O well no harm in checking.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 20, 2010 1:05 am

One possible cause of 'surging' can be tenseness. If your arms are tensed up they can act like springs when the scooter goes over bumps. The easy way to check is to let your elbows relax or sag. If they droop when you do that you were riding with tension. The SW does feel somewhat 'off and on' at low speeds. I suspect it's the Throttle Position Sensor. I've driven fuel injected trucks that do that too. At low speeds or on rough roads I tend to choke up on the OEM grips with my thumb and index finger against the brake lever perch. That helps prevent bumps from causing my hand to rotate the grip. In a parking lot you can drag the rear (not front) brake a bit to smooth things out too. At those low speeds it won't cause any wear on the brake.
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stevemorris0370
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 20, 2010 3:35 am

Hi YammaPapa, and all,
Thanks to you and all of the other posters, I tried out some of the suggestions and it would seem that the sensitive throttle is the culprit.
That's fine, as I can now adjust my riding to suit.

The T max is a totally different ride much more of a sport bike performance, I used to love pulling up at the lights alongside a sports bike who's rider didn't see me as a threat then as the lights changed a flick of the throttle and I was away leaving a very startled rider eating my dust. Tmax is a great bike around town and not so great on the freeway, the wing is ok around town and much better than the Tmax on the freeway, fuel economy is about the same for both.

The wing is a much more sophisticated machine it can do the same acceleration as the Tmax but you don't notice it as much, if you have not looked at the speedo for a while you get a surprise to see the speed you are at, much like comparing a sports car to a limo.

I love the wing which is more suitable to the older rider with taste who is looking for comfort.

I also own a couple of Triumph's A 2005 Rocket 3 and a 2002 900 Thunderbird, both classic pampered bikes only taken out on sunny day’s as the amount of chrome to clean on both would tie up a whole weekend, where as the wing only requires a quick wash and dry to look great.
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honda_silver
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 20, 2010 9:56 am

stevemorris0370 wrote:
I tried out some of the suggestions and it would seem that the sensitive throttle is the culprit.
That's fine, as I can now adjust my riding to suit.

A Wrist Rest ( http://www.hognutz.com/accessories/58/ ) could help reduce your grip.

I have used the Wrist Rest in all driving situations without any interference or problem.
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Dale M
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PostSubject: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing   Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 01, 2010 10:49 am

Steve, I also have a 2009 Swing. Bought it new as a leftover and after several months have about a 1000 miles on it. Mine does exactly the same thing at slow speeds until it warms up then its mostly gone. Solution for me was to concentrate on holding the throttle steady. It works but the problem shouldn't be there at all.
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trouble1100
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PostSubject: Re: Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing    Problem, or normal characteristic of a Silverwing  I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 01, 2010 1:32 pm

A little trick I learned while doing low speed practice on my GL1800 is to position your hand on the throttle so the outside heal of your palm rests on the bar end weight. By using this grip method you can hold a constant throttle opening without blipping while turning lock to lock or riding over a bumpy surface. BTW, I always wear some type of glove while riding for this reason.
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