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 Gearbox/final drive oil

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zrx212
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Anders L
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Anders L
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PostSubject: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 29, 2023 12:18 am

Hello Smile
What gear oil do you use?
Is it just like the engine oil? In my case 10w40 silkolene full synth? Or a specific gearbox oil?
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JohnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 29, 2023 4:41 am

Hi Anders L.

Screen shot from the service manual, Ref. Final drive Oil requirements.

Gearbox/final drive oil  20230716


Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 29, 2023 2:05 pm

Keep in mind that the oil specifications had changed a lot since that manual was printed, API/SG or higher is no longer made/apply and there is really no reason to use T903/MA (wet clutch oil) in a gearbox or even the engine of the SW600. I would not use any of the "friction modified" or fuel economy oils either, as the metallurgy is not the same as newer vehicles, good old 10w40 grade will avoid that, either dyno or synthetic.

Some argue that MA oils are better for gearboxes scratch , but is more costly, your choice.
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JohnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 29, 2023 7:33 pm

Just my opinion.
Not wishing to start a bun fight, but we don't all live in Florida.
So some consideration has to be made for climate difference due to location.
Because the Post originated from Denmark I would recommend 10W-30 as per manual for that latitude.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!

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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 29, 2023 8:18 pm

Johny C -
You are a legend as always, thanks.
But even though I understand english okay there is always that little doubt that I misunderstood something, so just so my danish brain is following, we are absolutely clear that what it says in the manual that Johny posted a picture of is that we are talking about a normal 10w30 engine oil, right? Smile Johny, would you care if it was normal semi synth or full synth as long as it was 10w30?
I could probably just put some of my 10w40 full synth in there but now my head has gone so mental about the oil because I had it serviced and im starten to get a whine between 40km/h and 100km/h. And gearbox oil was one thing done to it. I asked what he put in, he said 'gearbox oil'. I dont know, but I wanna change it and start doing my own service on it so I know whats in it and so on.
And correct gearbox oil is the first thing im gonna do to try and source out the whine.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 29, 2023 11:52 pm

Yes, 10W30 is fine for most climates, the SW600 owners manual does specify 10W40 for warmer climates, is convenient for me as my Burgman 400 specifies 10W40 and 4 bottles is the exact quantity for both scooters, no waste.
We enjoy nearly 6 months of temps over 30C 🙄, more like 35-40C the past few months 🥵
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JohnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 30, 2023 7:31 am

Hi Anders L.
Firstly, thank you for the compliment. although "Legend" may be a bit OTT(over the top)lol.

Secondly I just wanted to say I completely agree with zrx212 comment about Oils have moved on since the Swings bible was first written, with that in mind I would go for a semi synthetic over a fully synthetic every time due to original build tolerances and lay out of the final drive assembly.

Thirdly, because of build design of the final drive there's going to be some form of whine develop over time/mileage, which will become more noticeable on over-run (where the engine braking power is fighting the inertia of the Swings 250Kgs) something you only start to notice after the initial "new bike period" wears off, mine certainly does. But if it ain't broke why try to fix it eh? The drive belt casing is going to act as an amplifier, making it sound a lot worse than it realy is.

So to conclude, I would only use a gearbox oil in a known environment like a wet clutch box because not all gearbox oils actually list what Friction modifiers they might be using without a lot of research.
If you are worried about what oil is in your final drive, pull the plug and drain it. So long as the oils cleanish and no silver sediment comes out your good to go. I DO NOT recommend flushing the final drive before re-filling. If there are signs of swarf your looking at a strip down and re-build any way.
Refill with a semi synthetic 10W-30 or 40 if you ride it like you stole it. And remember over filling with oil can be just as negative as not enough oil.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!

Basketball

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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 30, 2023 8:32 am

Just for reference I use whatever oil in the final drive that is used for the engine. 10w-40 in most cases. I change final drive every other engine oil change and do both at the same time.

Some years ago I use a 90w? hypoid oil in my final drive. Absolutely no problems but I went back to the engine oil as it is so much easier to use the same weight oil in both!
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 30, 2023 1:34 pm

with near or almost 100,000 mile experience with 2 new SilverWings--- In US--
WalMart house brand (cheap oil) 10-40 W in both engine and gear cases worked fine for me with no troubles---gear oil changed maybe once a year and engine oil and maybe filter every 2000 miles or so

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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 30, 2023 7:59 pm

Tanks to all of you for all the replies.
And Johny c I ment that you always answer to help us newbies and you often attach a picture, thats awesome Smile I have a kind of restricted choice of oil if I dont wanna wait for the online order but just go shopping know. But I think I just do a online order and drive a few more days with the full synth 10w40 oil before the new oil gets here. But damn theres a lot of brands. Im looking at motorex 10w30 semi synth and liquyi moly 10w30 semi synth. Theres also motul and castrol. I know its kind of religion with oil brands, but I just wanna choose something that the silverwing wants. Reason im on full synth is because a Honda motorcycle shop told me to. The specific fuchs silkolene pro4 full synth he didnt even had in stock, he told me to go gey it somewhere else, and thats why I thought, ' Yeah ok, he really thinks its the best for the silverwing' . He didnt make a dime, could have sold me any other oil he had
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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSun Jul 30, 2023 8:06 pm

Im looking at the 'Motorex scooter 4t 10w30' and it says JASO MB.
But the 'Motorex scooter 4t 10w40' says JASO MA2.
Why are they different? What should I choose?
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MUCHoldERwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 31, 2023 6:55 am

Some years ago I use a 90w? hypoid oil in my final drive. Absolutely no problems but I went back to the engine oil as it is so much easier to use the same weight oil in both!

And there is what determines the oil choice for more manufactures than we know. They do what works and what is the most cost efficient for them.
Look at the specification on oil containers, no matter what the brand is one is compatible with the other. Remember these are OLD machines and chances are what oil today you chose is better than the oil they used when it was first manufactured. Me I switched to the hypoid gear oil, why because where I was putting it was in a gear case and that was my choice to bother to do that.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 31, 2023 7:34 am

Anders L wrote:
Im looking at the 'Motorex scooter 4t 10w30' and it says JASO MB.
But the 'Motorex scooter 4t 10w40' says JASO MA2.
Why are they different? What should I choose?

The simple answer Rolling Eyes is whether the clutch is in the engine oil or not , that "MA2" spec. is for motorcycles with a wet clutch, "MB" is for motorcycles with a dry clutch.(mostly scooters), but MB is "Not" specified for the 20+yr. old design SW600 engine and should not be used "IMO" as it's a friction modified oil designed for newer design engines, what we old folk call water down oil Shocked

You don't have to use MA oil, there's other oils (still) that don't have friction modifiers, look at the bottle label, for example, a 10W40 won't have friction modifiers.
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JohnyC
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 31, 2023 9:50 am

Totally agree with zrx212.
So to bring this topic to a close Anders L just pick a budget oil of 10W30 or 10W40 for a car/van with NO added suffixes like MB or MA2.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 31, 2023 2:01 pm

These lubricating oil discussions can get very confusing really quick, but as long as the oil standards Keep changing due to ever changing emissions/fuel economy requirements. We will have to continue to have them, to see what works as time moves on, they will never be "a closed topic". If you plan on keeping your SW600, it would be a good investment to buy/keep extra oil scratch

The best takeaway from this discussion, is best "Not to Use" any oils that are labeled "Energy or Resource Conserving" NO !!  Gearbox/final drive oil  1f44e
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 01, 2023 4:53 pm


It seems like oil choice has become a science. It requires a little study to keep up with 'standards'. (The same goes for greases).

Over the years I have always put oil viscosity as the main concern, then look out for any nasty additives which may suit a modern engine design but can do horrible things to older engines.

I've been putting the same oil (Halfords semi-synthetic) in the engine and final drive for 22000 miles. It's no better and no worse. Suspect
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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 01, 2023 8:10 pm

Im so confused. I think there is a difference in the selection of oils we have on shelfs in stores in Scandi/UK/USA/AUSTRALIA and so on. I went to the store today. They all say something with MA. I couldnt find the circle thay should say energi conserver or not. All the oils avalaible was fancy. Exept the lawnmower oil, that was just a black container with a 'texas' label on it.
I currently run silkolene pro xp 10w40 and have done for most of this year. But that is full synth and the bottle says 'less oil consumpsion' ' less friction' 'improved fuel consumption' and all that, but wont all the full synth oil say that because its actually true? Fully synth has less friction than mineral, and that gives better fuel consumption? Im so confussed honestly. Its quite tricky to find the 'normal oil', and it just seems so wrong to me not to buy a motorcycle oil. I really dont know what to go with, so I think I just do one more oil change with the silkolene thats already in it and think about it again later this year. Il just put the same silkolene full synth in the gearbox also il guess
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 01, 2023 9:49 pm

" I currently run silkolene pro xp 10w40 and have done for most of this year."

That oil is perfectly fine/suitable for the SW600 in both engine and rear gearbox, is usually specified for warmer climates, but since is fully synthetic it will flow fine in colder weather, lots of motorcyclist use 10W40 in all climates, is specified in lots of scooters, in any case, if most oils at the store said "Ma-2" they are not for cars, you must have been at a motorcycle shop, no one said you could not use "MA" spec oil scratch The MA-2 spec was introduced in 2006, supersedes anything else for motorcycles, biggest plus is it is catalytic converter safe.

The API oil specification circle or energy conserving "Starburst" is only found on some car specific oils, never on a motorcycle specific oil. You will never see an energy conserving "Starburst" on a 10W40 car oil, it does not meet the criteria, no slippery friction modifiers, it makes it perfectly suitable for most motorcycles/SW600 and it's cheaper.
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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 06, 2023 2:59 pm

Zrx212

I just wanted to do the right thing but I have now learned that there is no 'right way' so many years after the scooter was produced.
Its a 400cc silverwing I got, not 600 Smile I thougt the weight and taxes would be bigger on the 600 compared to the 400, but I know now its only a few kilos. But the taxes is still way higher on the 600. I imported it from germany in 2021. Kind of regret I didnt buy a 600 instead.
I did the engine oil and filter change today and the gearoil also, I used silkolene pro4 10w40 xp for both.
The old oil was clear and clean, no metal glims or nothing. So il guess im fine using that oil.
Thanks so much for all the help from everybody! Smile
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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Gearbox/final drive oil    Gearbox/final drive oil  I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 06, 2023 3:05 pm

About the viscosity 10w40, I only use the silverwing from april till october/november, so its usually somewhere between + 10 to + 35 deegrees celsius when silverwing is out.
I have a winter scooter, suzuki uk 110 address, gets all the winter beating, not silverwing Smile
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