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 Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs

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JohnyC
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 50
Age : 69
Location : Bristol, UK
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Registration date : 2022-12-23

Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17, 2023 9:31 am

Basketball

So.. got your attention have I ?

For the last 2 weeks I have been experimenting with "Strapadicktome" commercial tuning items for my 09 Swing.

Disclaimer... this is my personal journey in to modifying my scooter. It is not a lesson in how to do it and I will not be held responsible for any one copying or messing up their scooter!

That said I do have rather a surprise.

Based on the mods I did to my first scooter, a 1999 Suzuki Burgman an 400.... New belt, DrPulley 26g rollers, and a carb tune up.
BTW, changing the rollers was an amazing upgrade and so worth the difference in performance with little loss in economy.

To set the stage a bit of infill is needed. on acquiring the Swing I decided to strip down the CVT(19.5Kmls on the clock) to "have a look", I also removed the driven clutch assembly to look at the clutch plates.Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  20221211Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  20221212


As you can see from the picture the needle bearing in the rear was looking rather black, so I acquired a replacement to fit when the Malossi spring arrived.
I was unable to find a seller for Dr.Pulley rollers for a Swing but I did find TechPulley Flying rollers 26g, apparently same gene pool father and son.
Once fitted it was off to test them...Drive engagement RPM rose from 2000 to 2500 over stock rollers. I was most disappointed, yes there was an improvement in acceleration but no where near the same level of difference as the Burgman and it was too buzzy/revy around town(Goldwing economy) poor. Also as others had noted the odd chirp/squeek from the CVT when you hooned it. I also fitted a Booster Plug fuel injection device but I have already sung about it's virtues in a previous post reply. *(Link to Booster Plug info below)
Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  20230115
A few pictures on replacing the driven plate Contra spring.
Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  20230116
Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Clutch10
Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  20230117
The needle roller bearing can either be knocked out with a suitable long screwdriver(if it's not being kept) from the other end or use a blind puller 27mm.
I used my clamp system to push the new bearing in with a socket WARNING.....THERE IS NO BLIND STOP FOR THIS BEARING(SEE PICTURE) so push gently, I went maybe 2.5mm to far but the bearing has spare land on the shaft both ways but I will keep an eye on it until the blind puller turns up to correct things.
The threaded bar for the clamp is standard 12mm high tensile threaded bar cut to the appropriate size, it has to compress 7" into less than 4"to remove the circlip holding the spring on.

Time for another test ride ooh, drive engagement is now 3000rps and it goes up the road like a cat on fire, great for the traffic light Grand pre or the drag strip but watch the fuel gauge fall

* https://www.silverwing600.com/t11352-booster-plug?highlight=“Booster”
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JohnyC
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Number of posts : 50
Age : 69
Location : Bristol, UK
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Registration date : 2022-12-23

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PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17, 2023 10:04 am

Sorry ran out of space.
One big surprise was no matter how hard I hooned it there were no squeaks or chirps from the CVT, the Malossi spring cured it!
So a mod too far unless you are a drag strip freak, or own a petrol station.
After much thought(I did consider a Malossi fly clutch but £250 ouch) I decided on a re-think, I wanted to drop the drive take up back down to 2500 so I put the stock(20Kmls 28g) rollers back in.
WOW what a difference, (standard rollers are quieter) take up back to 2500rpm but you could realy feel the drive kick in without screaming it.
At 30 mph revs are 3200 but at 4500 rpm your doing 55mph/60mph depending on terrain. 6500rpm is 80+mph after that it's your license but 3 figures is to easy to reach end stopping.
After several days of testing I am well happy with the outcome as is.....

So my best advise has to be, forget the rollers, forget the Malossi fly clutch. Buy the Malossi white spring(cheapest item in the "strapadicktome" upgrades) and a Power plug fuel devise is all that's required
to transform your Swing.

I hope this is of use to others, it was a complete surprise to me, if you ain't tried it, don't knock it.

Be safe, be seen!
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
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Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1272
Age : 61
Location : South East England
Points : 3731
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17, 2023 10:57 am

Thanks for sharing this mod. A job well done by the looks of it. Very useful pictures and good quality. It's also interesting to see different types of improvised tools used by our members.

I'm sure that needle bearing does have a 'blind-stop' though.
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JohnyC
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Number of posts : 50
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Location : Bristol, UK
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17, 2023 11:09 am

I don't think it does, there was no added resistance pushing the bearing in until I stopped to look and decided to stop where it was.
check the pre-removal picture enclosed. Either that or it was not pushed in far enough in production.

I'll just reiterate though that it was the best mod + the fuel pug that I haver tried to date, tempted to try and get some 30g rollers as the engine has more than enough power to run them and the Malossi spring holds the drive gearing right where you want it.
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Loosemarbles
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17, 2023 11:30 am

I would say that your new needle bearing is seated correctly, i.e. against the blind stop.

30g rollers? Wow! Please let us know if you do decide to go with them. Would love to know if your theory works.
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JohnyC
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Number of posts : 50
Age : 69
Location : Bristol, UK
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Registration date : 2022-12-23

Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17, 2023 2:39 pm

Ps, Anyone seen an advert for 30grm rollers ? ?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 17, 2023 4:33 pm

JohnyC wrote:
Ps, Anyone seen an advert for 30grm rollers ? ?

Send an email to Dr Pulley directly. Tell them you were referred by the Silverwing600 forum and that you would like a set of 30gm Round Roller weights (RR2820-8 30gm) for your Silverwing. If they don’t have them on the shelf they will gladly custom make a set for you.

https://drpulley.co/
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zrx212
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 18, 2023 12:03 pm

I did complete service and installed Malossi white spring almost 2years ago, at approx 12k miles. The Only CVT mod on scooter.
I tried both 28gr DRP sliders and oem stock weights, but I preferred the way the oem 28gr weights worked overall, acceleration, CVT shifts, etc., so I installed a new set. My average MPG is still 55mpg.

BTW, the Malossi spring virtually eliminates the SW600 belt slap. IMO, the rest of the CVT parts in the SW600 perform good and are well built quality parts, more than adequate. Can see buying and aftermarket Malossi clutch for double the cost of oem parts needed to refresh clutch.

PSA...

The common practice when installing a stronger/stiffer contra spring, is to increase the weight of the variator weights to maintain similar cvt operation, so actually by just installing the Malossi (cheaper) contra spring you get similar results as to installing a $$$ lighter weight set, in other words, if you want better acceleration, stay with stock rollers or install "same weight as stock DRP sliders", installing heavier weights or DRP sliders will return similar to stock performance, but better slow speed drivability. You will always get the high gear shift, lower rpms at highway speeds with sliders.

BTW, there's no physical stop or ridge to stop needle bearing, according to "Stefano Bonacasa" (towards end of video) there's plenty extra area on shaft to accommodate some variation of placement, IOW if bearing is on the hardened shaft chromed area you are ok.

https://youtu.be/M8KclLwsYo4

BTW, my SW600 clutch engages at approx. 2,200 rpms, did you disassemble and clean clutch components, Sand/clean clutch bell and shoes scratch
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JohnyC
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Number of posts : 50
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Location : Bristol, UK
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 18, 2023 1:23 pm

Firstly, thank you Cosmic for the link, finally one that A.. works and B my security software doesn't have a head fit over.
Thanks also to zrx212 for your input.
I'm already back running 28gr stock rollers(abeit they have 20k on them, prob explains the diff in take up).
I want to test 30gr rollers and maybe 31gr on my set up, Cosmic said they would make them if I contacted DrPulley so I've sent them a Email but their on holiday in 2 days for a week or so. Not expecting a quick response but I will post as and when.


Ps. I will draw the bearing back the 2mm when my decent blind puller turns up(thats another story).
Pps Still waiting for the Hyper-pro fork spings to.
Be safe, be seen!
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Loosemarbles
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 18, 2023 1:57 pm

I'm curious. When I replaced that needle bearing I pulled it into place using my home-made puller, I turned the nut until I felt some resistance. I then 'snugged' it up to the blind stop. The arrows below show the blind stop:

Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Needle14


Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Needle12

I will double check by looking at my spare assembly. It it something Honda changed after 2001-2002 models?
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zrx212
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 18, 2023 3:09 pm

I'll pull my NIB out tomorrow and double check, I have to admit, I pushed mine in to exact position as old one scratch
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zrx212
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19, 2023 3:40 pm

All this talk about the bearing position had me scratch , so I disassembled the SW today to double check, took several measurements, my roller bearing is exactly 1mm (.040") in from the end of beveled area on the pulley, the needle rollers contact the hardened area of the transmission input shaft 4mm (.150") from inside edge, clutch shoe imprint is dead center of bell, BTW, hardened area is approx. 5-6mm longer than bearing contact area, all good cheers
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zrx212
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 19, 2023 7:36 pm

Had a chance to take a look at my NIB pulley assembly, bearing is installed nearly flush with end of bevel, maybe .5mm (.020") approx. below it, all visual assessment thru still sealed plastic bag, didn't want to break it and make it a used part, JIC I need to resell it, etc.

JhonyC , be careful with the type of blind bearing puller, to move the needle bearing, they are not necessarily designed to save the bearing Shocked , look at this diagram I put together from mine and others ideas, several guys have successfully removed and reused the very costly needle bearing on Burgman 400 using this method, when only the roller bearing was bad or to install a better double sealed one, just like I have done on both Burgman and SW600. IAC, similar DIY tool will work on either scooter.


Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Needle10
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Loosemarbles
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 20, 2023 12:28 pm

Well, I find Mr Honda's puzzles most intruiging. Looking at JohnyC's image it looks to me that there might be a gap where the arrow below shows. This would mean that the bearing is not quite up against the blind stop.

Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Johnyc10

If that is the case, then the fitting of the bearing has a tolerance factor of a few millimetres.

Quite unusual for such an important piece of hardware. Suspect
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JohnyC
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Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  Empty
PostSubject: Re: Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs    Malossi (white) Contra spring 17Kgs  I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 20, 2023 4:46 pm

Thanks again for the input zrx222, I have decided on reflection and Loosemarbles* comments that the bearing can stay right where it is, I do have a backup bearing in stock. They were possibly the last 2 available in stock in the UK that I could find.
As to Blind Pullers, I personally use a Sealey AK 716 set.

Ref experiments with heavier weights Vs Malossi spring will be delayed as DrPulley start shipping from 30th of Jan, but I think I will get both 30 gr and 29 gr rollers, just to be anal.
But at present tbh I am well pleased with the setup and despite the grunt increase it's more economical both in the city and longer journey roads probably because you don't need to wring it's neck. It just feels right.

Be safe, be seen!
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