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 That doesn't look right - clutch wear

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Cosmic_Jumper
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 2:08 pm

Going beyond the scope of 'what did you do today' - as I think this will probably run for a bit...
That doesn't look right - clutch wear Download?id=1047
That doesn't look right - clutch wear Download?id=1048
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 2:50 pm

I reckon it's just badly 'over-worn'. My clutch bell looked very similar to yours although the shoes weren't quite that bad. A replacement clutch bell along with new shoes should fix it. It's worth a total strip down and a good clean up while you're there.

All that gunk inside the clutch bell is not surprising given the amount of wear on the shoes.

It looks as though some dirt and grime may have gotten into the bearing housing and affected the bearings. Those bearings can be replaced without the special tools, I did mine quite recently.

All is not lost. That whole assembly can be overhauled with minimum expense and some patient DIY time. It's worth it.
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 3:09 pm

It's not getting a new bell. They're a rare bike in Ireland and I've only ever seen one being broken - I got the center stand from it. Even elsewhere, they're pricey enough and shipping adds to it. Getting one from the UK is out due to brexit.

The funny thing is that it worked well like that. I preferred the engagement to how it was when I got it first.

A set of shoes and a belt is €150 plus shipping. The only question is whether it's worth putting those into it or not. It has 52,000 miles on it and they were hard miles. The plastics are, em, 'rough but secure' and with the price of fuel these days, filling the tank would double its value.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 3:16 pm


I confess, I did put my scored bell back on to start with but I had noise issues. You could just allow new shoes to 'bed-in' to the bell. IAC, it needs a good clean up.

You could check with forum member 'siataukreg' to see if he has a clutch bell. Even with postage it might be worth considering.
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 3:19 pm

VAT and charges on the collection of VAT make shipping from the UK impractical.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 5:29 pm

old bike---you probably do not know past history----just fix and ride on
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 7:14 pm

In that case, John is probably right. Dismantle the clutch assembly and give it good clean up. Put in new shoes, (you certainly can't use those knackered ones), and a drive belt. Doing that will certainly improve things but the give the shoes time to 'bed-in' to that scored clutch bell.

BTW, as a last resort, could you collect a second hand bell from the UK in person, if you happen to be visiting? I'm guessing that includes Northern Ireland.
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 8:10 pm

NI is in the EU VAT system and Single Market for goods.
It's the same as ordering from Italy or wherever - only quicker. I usually get my tires from there.
https://www.thevisorshop.com/
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 8:16 pm


I don't really understand this EU stuff. I just wondered if collecting something in person might bypass this stuff. BTW, there's a tyre in your basket!
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 8:19 pm

That clutch bell is ~$25 $85 USD from Ron Ayers.com here in the US. You might want to check with them whether they'll ship to you. And how much.


Edit. Oops! Sausage fingers. That $25 was an error. Post edited to correct to $85 which, with shipping to me would be an additional $20USD.


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Tue Aug 16, 2022 10:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 8:22 pm


25 Bucks?! Smellybeard...check it out, that's a bargain!
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 8:27 pm

Shipping from the US is out of the question.
First of all it'll be ~100$ and then there are tariffs, VAT and collection charges. The collection charges would typically be more than the 25$.

After brexit, the EU clamped down on small parcel deliveries from outside the EU. Everything gets collected now and there's a charge for collection. The shipping companies are making a mint. It all goes back to the way the UK was letting stuff in from Asia with bogus declarations and underpaying tariffs to the EU.
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 8:34 pm

I spoke to a farmer friend and he has experience with big centrifugal clutches and vario belt transmissions. He says try new shoes and be prepared to take it off again to clean it out. Clean off the worst of the ridges and leave it rough for bedding in. I ordered shoes from Italy this morning - they're not easy to find. Belt too.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 8:37 pm


That's your best bet. The shoes will bed in and I'm sure it'll run OK. thumbs up
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2022 11:10 pm

If you intend on keeping that clutch bell, at a minimum you really need sand it really good, if you want to get any life of your clutch shoes, need to use a suitable flat piece of wood or small sanding block to back up you sandpaper (not your fingers, they are not flat) to achieve a reasonably flat surface. Leave it installed and use rear wheel to spin bell against sandpaper. You could start with a 100 grit and end at 180-220 max and/or red /green scotch-brite pad, last sanding should be in a random/circular motion. The clutch shoes themselves will finish the polishing process Prefect no, but usable, you may get some clutch chatter, but once it's locked in it will be good. The bell does not look "blued" so it's probably not warped. Definitely revisit and clean after 100 miles or so.

I strongly suggest you clean/check and lube the rear pulley assy, plus other normal cvt servicing, etc.
plenty info here, I have lots of DIY info and pics. Good Luck !! thumbs up
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 12, 2022 3:00 am

zrx212 wrote:
If you intend on keeping that clutch bell, at a minimum you really need sand it really good, if you want to get any life of your clutch shoes, need to use a suitable flat piece of wood or small sanding block to back up you sandpaper (not your fingers, they are not flat) to achieve a reasonably flat surface. Leave it installed and use rear wheel to spin bell against sandpaper. You could start with a 100 grit and end at 180-220 max and/or red /green scotch-brite pad, last sanding should be in a random/circular motion. The clutch shoes themselves will finish the polishing process Prefect no, but usable, you may get some clutch chatter, but once it's locked in it will be good. The bell does not look "blued" so it's probably not warped. Definitely revisit and clean after 100 miles or so.

I strongly suggest you clean/check and lube the rear pulley assy, plus other normal cvt servicing, etc.
plenty info here, I have lots of DIY info and pics. Good Luck !! thumbs up

I agree sand it won't remove the grooves but will give a much smoother surface for new shoes. Every time I'm in there I scuff it with some 320 grit just to remove the shine.
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DavidinDunnellon
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 13, 2022 4:38 pm

It looks like there is plenty of metal left on that drum. Could it be taken to a brake shop and turned on a brake lathe? The machinist in me always wants to make metal chips Smile
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 13, 2022 6:15 pm

DavidinDunnellon wrote:
It looks like there is plenty of metal left on that drum. Could it be taken to a brake shop and turned on a brake lathe?  The machinist in me always wants to make metal chips Smile

Yes is very possible and a good option if no parts, etc. The thing is you need a special tool (unobtainable $$) and/or a special diy setup to remove the bell (that carries some damage risk), plus the machine work may take it out of limits, etc. IOW need some mechanical skills and tools.

Too bad parts are not available or $$$ to the OP, I paid approx. $150 USD for new oem bell and shoe set.

Brake lathes are mostly collecting dust now days, the wear limits on brake rotors/drums are very limited on newer vehicles, R/R with new parts is what we do now, repair/recondition isn't.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 14, 2022 2:15 am

Even if it was removed, I doubt that the hole in drum would fit over an auto type brake lathe shaft and trueing it that's another story without proper cones.

Several people have pulled the clutch bell in various ways it's here in several posts. Search.

Admin edit:
Here are links to DIY Clutch Bell removal. Hope these help:

https://www.silverwing600.com/t10987-clutch-bell-how-to-remove-replace?highlight=Remove+clutch+bell

https://www.silverwing600.com/t12369-tool-to-remove-clutch-bell?highlight=Clutch+bell
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 15, 2022 9:39 pm

Most small machine shops would do the turning for you, there may even be a local home machinist, ask around
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http://kitchenman.co.uk
zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16, 2022 1:26 am

kitchenman wrote:
Most small machine shops would do the turning for you, there may even be a local home machinist, ask around

There's very little wear limit on the bell, up to 160.5 mm ID from 160mm std. or .5 mm. My previous suggestion of sanding the inside of the bell, was really a wishful/maybe it might work "FIX", or what we call in the NFL a "Hail Marry Pass", by all means any possible way to machine surface is better, even if you pass the limit slightly.
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16, 2022 1:35 pm

Admin  posted my bell remover setup a while ago, there will be a link somewhere


https://www.silverwing600.com/t12369-tool-to-remove-clutch-bell?highlight=Clutch+bell
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17, 2022 11:26 am

The parts have arrived. If it works it works. Taking it apart and putting it together is not a lot of work.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17, 2022 11:36 am

Let us know how you get on and how it runs. I reckon you'll be good to go thumbs up
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smellybeard
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17, 2022 12:14 pm

Yes.
I spoke to a fairly serious engineer about it yesterday - I dropped off the Ducati engine in the background to him. He said to use the finest stone I could find and not to cross-hatch the finish and concentrate on squareness. I listen to this guy.

I'll measure the bell too. I assume I'm over the factory limit already but I'll measure it.
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17, 2022 12:33 pm

I've found a new spurious bell for about 130 euros including shipping from Italy.
I might spring for that.
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 17, 2022 9:59 pm

Job's done and there are no apparent issues.
No squeaking, shaking, shuddering or any signs of slipping or new vibration.
Engagement is progressive and at a lower engine speed than before. Disengagement is at a lower speed too. Low speed handling is probably better - and definitely a lot better than when I first rode it.

Quite an easy job, really.
I just hope it keeps working.
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PostSubject: Re: That doesn't look right - clutch wear   That doesn't look right - clutch wear I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 18, 2022 3:03 am


Good to hear thumbs up If you didn't replace the clutch bell those new pads will need time to get into the groove(s)!.

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