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 Oil change: This must be a misprint!

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Green7
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PostSubject: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 1:28 pm

Greetings all,

So, on page 89 of the 2006 FSC600D/A Silver Wing Owner's Manual, it shows the first oil change to be after the first 600 miles, and subsequent changes after...8,000 miles? That can't be right! Say it ain't so!

What am I missing here, or is this a misprint?
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Mottza
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 1:51 pm

Sounds about right.
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terrier
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 1:54 pm

No misprint. 8000 miles or 12 months whichever comes first.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 2:18 pm

It's a modern design, low stressed and the oil is just serving the engine, i.e. not a gearbox too. 8k miles oil changes will not be a problem, although I expect most of us run into the annual service first.
So that's two rear tyres per oil change 😆
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 2:26 pm

Wow, just plain wow. Well, you know what, I'm getting it done about every 3000, just because! But thank you for the information.
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Mottza
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 3:46 pm

I'm of the school of thought that it gets changed every year, even if the milage is low.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 8:31 pm

Last year I did manage to put 8k on but that was with a lot of time off in prime of Summer. This year not so much back to work and weathers been so hot. I'd say change oil at least at 5K or less. Clean oil keeps wear down on internal parts. I'm sticking with 3K changes just because I ride it hard and don't want any problems. Rolled 30K on 2013 bought new in late 2015 doesn't use any oil rides like new.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 16, 2021 9:41 pm

Mottza wrote:
I'm of the school of thought that it gets changed every year, even if the milage is low.

Same here, an oil and filter change is way easier and cheaper then most other mechanical jobs.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 3:07 am

This is utter nonsense!
Modern engine and lubricating oils have a roughly predetermined life and changing it for the sake of changing it is a complete waste of resources, money and time.
Don't forget either that manufacturers like Honda almost certainly ere on the side of caution, probably as much for their own benefit as much as anything else, when they set service intervals, intervals which are lengthened from time to time.

Does one change the tyres or brake pads every year, whether or not they have reached the end of their life. Of course not!

Does anyone change the belt every year, whether or not it needs to be changed? Of course not!

In the case of the belt, a significant number of owners state categorically that the proper belts will last considerably longer than the 16,000 miles advertised.

I will concede that changing the oil filter, possibly annually, if high mileages are being ridden and, at a stretch, the air filter in certain parts of the world but that's about all

Unnecessary acts like this are a fad, pure and simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 4:48 am

I'll raise this question on the maxi muppets to Ian (Data) who worked on engine oils and engine design. He'll certainly be able to answer this.

But it all depends as well on how the low milage is made up, lots of short runs and not really warming up I would of thought degrades the oil more than less, but longer journeys.

Oil (and other fluids) degrades unlike belts, filters and spark plugs over time.

I change the oil on our 2nd car every year despite it doing 1500-2500 miles a year. Especially as it does short journeys a lot.

Just my thoughts Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 6:38 am

Belts degrade which is why they need to be changed.
Tyres degrade just by being in sunlight.
Sparking-plugs degrade over time.

As for this paragraph:

'But it all depends as well on how the low milage is made up, lots of short runs and not really warming up I would of thought degrades the oil more than less, but longer journeys.'

I remind readers that there has been discussion on the subject of 'warming up' quite recently on this forum and opinions differ. Personally, I found my Silverwings appreciated being warmed up before I set off. I noticed that when I didn't bother when off on a longer trip, they always felt better after the first stop.

In the same way, in spite of my being slagged off (not here) for saying so, I know that my Silverwings performed better on branded petrol (or diesel), as have all the cars and scooters I've owned over the past 50+ years.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 10:45 am

I've just been reading about synthetic motor-oil

Apparently, synthetic oil costs four times as much to produce as petroleum-based oil.; I assume that's what everyone here uses.

Perhaps the cost-conscious riders among us who change the oil every year, come what may, should buy petroleum-based oil, thereby saving considerable amounts of cash.

Mind you, I read also that synthetic oil is good for above 10,000 miles, more that three times the life of the other stuff.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 2:24 pm

I change my oil as soon as I can't remember when I last changed it. I have quite a short memory!

I'm sure that sticking to the manual is the way to go. It seems apparent that Honda put some thought into this engine. Having always ridden Honda, apart from one Kawasaki....oh..and a Yamaha, I put up with those past irritating Honda shortcomings. The SW is truly unique.

The SW seems to defy all that I learned over the years and I love it. "to infinity and beyond" What a Face , although 150,000 miles would be satisfactory.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 3:52 pm

I use finest spermaceti oil (harvested for the rarest Physeter macrocephalus) and change it every blue moon whether it needs it or not...
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 4:13 pm

Laughing Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 17, 2021 4:43 pm

MikeO wrote:
I've just been reading about synthetic motor-oil

Apparently, synthetic oil costs four times as much to produce as petroleum-based oil.; I assume that's what everyone here uses.

Perhaps the cost-conscious riders among us who change the oil every year, come what may, should buy petroleum-based oil, thereby saving considerable amounts of cash.

Mind you, I read also that synthetic oil is good for above 10,000 miles, more that three times the life of the other stuff.

In spite of being able to " go longer " reading my synthetic bottle of 0-20 it states follow MFG recommendations for intervals so we are in that boat and under warranty even a tighter ship. So out of warranty do as / what pleases you under it go by the book.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18, 2021 7:36 am

Let's face it...some will change their oil every 3K as that is what they have always done. Nothing will change that LOL. On high mileage years I change between 5-8K using good synthetic oil. The oil comes out looking very clean so Honda must know their business. That said I (in lean years) I change once a year despite miles.

So do what seems right to YOU!
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 18, 2021 9:58 am

oldwingguy wrote:
Mottza wrote:
I'm of the school of thought that it gets changed every year, even if the mileage is low.

Same here, an oil and filter change is way easier and cheaper then most other mechanical jobs.

I also change the engine oil in our scoots every year right before winterizing them ... but for a different reason. Since our machines are dormant for the better part of 5 months, changing the used engine oil lessens the likelihood of the corrosive acids in the used oil taking a foot hold over the long winter sleep.
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Green7
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19, 2021 4:22 pm

The 8k oil change recommendation is the same as on my Pan European.

Personally I would not run either Pan or Silverwing up to the 8k mark before changing oil and filter, I tend to change mine at between 5-6k which works out annually for me

Oil viscosity / Semi synthetic / Full synthetic -whatever Honda recommend, why do we think we know better

Fuel, because they both cost so little to fill up I always use the premium stuff, does it go any better, possibly, but that just could just be the placebo effect

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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 19, 2021 5:33 pm

This topic has become a mess. What started as an "oil" post became a "fuel" or "oil" post. Very confusing.

I split the Topic! ALL the fuel posts have been moved to a different topic: Fuel discussion.

Let's try and keep a little order so people can find the information as needed! Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 23, 2021 12:41 pm

Green7 wrote:


Oil viscosity / Semi synthetic / Full synthetic  -whatever Honda recommend, why do we think we know better



Honda engineers do a remarkable job but they do change their minds at times. In 2002 I bought a Silver Wing for me and a Reflex for my wife. Although the final drives are much alike except for size, the owner's manual for the Silver Wing called for 85 weight oil and the Reflex called for 135 weight. Now the Wing calls for engine oil and a Reflex manual that I found on line calls for 90 Wt. oil now. I distinctly remember because it seemed to be backwards. Heavier loads need heavier oil??? Apparently not.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 23, 2021 3:18 pm

Jeez, I've owned both a 2003 (purchased in '03) and a 2009 and the owner's manual(s) for each states to use the same oil in the final drive as is used in the motor
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 23, 2021 3:44 pm

I went with 80w gear oil just for the sake of the shear quality, note viscosity rating at the end of this article. Like oil brands do as you please as long as spec is met. Why does Honda use engine oil in the final drive? I'd say it works ok and no need for two lubrication types at the factory.


The SAE rates gear oils suitable for operation at one temperature on a monograde scale. Gear oil meant for high ambient temperatures is designated by a single number (for instance, SAE 80 or SAE 250). Viscosity of these oils is measured at 212 degrees Fahrenheit; higher numbers indicate more viscous oil. Monograde gear oil with a "W" after its number (SAE 70W, SAE 80W) has a viscosity rating measured at 0 degrees Fahrenheit and is intended for low ambient temperatures.

Multigrade Gear Oil
Some gear oils have additives that change their viscosity at different operating temperatures. These gear oils are labeled "multigrade" by the SAE, which provides a rating for the oil's low- and high-temperature viscosity. For instance, SAE 80W-90 gear oil has a low-temperature rating of 80 and a high-temperature rating of 90.

Comparing Oil Viscosity
As mentioned previously, gear oil viscosity numbers are not directly comparable to engine oil viscosity numbers. For example, 75W-90 gear oil is about the same viscosity as 10W-40 engine oil; 80W-90 is about the same as 20W-40.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 23, 2021 6:43 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Jeez, I've owned both a 2003 (purchased in '03)  and a 2009 and the owner's manual(s) for each states to use the same oil in the final drive as is used in the motor

Yes that's a 100% correct, but(always one !!), only if you are using SG or higher spec. or MA in the engine, wich is designed to withstand shear loads in a transmission or gearbox. If you use car oil types is not good enough IMO !! 

 Yes a lot use car oil in the engine/gearbox and new oils are way better than 2003/2009, so that may be fine, but the writing is clear. For me is 10W40 MA spec in gearbox, hate stinky stuff.

Oil change: This must be a misprint! Sw12410
Oil change: This must be a misprint! Sw12610


Last edited by zrx212 on Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 23, 2021 9:07 pm

I have used 10W-40, 10W-30 and 75-90 gear oil in the final drive. I always use good quality oils and am not overly hard on my machine. All three have worked fine for me.

In addition I change final drive fluid every other oil change.
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 28, 2022 4:21 pm

1Wingman1 wrote:
Green7 wrote:


Oil viscosity / Semi synthetic / Full synthetic  -whatever Honda recommend, why do we think we know better



Honda engineers do a remarkable job but they do change their minds at times.  In 2002 I bought a Silver Wing for me and a Reflex for my wife.  Although the final drives are much alike except for size, the owner's manual for the Silver Wing called for 85 weight oil and the Reflex called for 135 weight.  Now the Wing calls for engine oil and a Reflex manual that I found on line calls for 90 Wt. oil now.  I distinctly remember because it seemed to be backwards.  Heavier loads need heavier oil???  Apparently not.

At my 80th birthday dinner there was a discussion of embarrassing moments and I mentioned my posting of incorrect oil info on this forum.  My wife has a steel trap memory about some things especially my mistakes.  She said that she remembered that the service manager told me some oil numbers and I was surprised because they didn't make sense to me and I didn't have a service manual yet.  She was really interested in learning some things about the new Reflex that I bought for her and it was in the shop with a noisy clutch bearing.  After 3 months in the St. Augustine shop we asked to see what problem the service manager was having disassembling the clutch.  He had used a hydraulic press on the clutch and really deformed part of it and still never got it apart.  We had a loaner motorcycle for those 3 months and she rode my Silver Wing.  The bright side for my wife was when I traded that broken down Reflex scooter for a new Silver Wing for her.  Her fine memory makes me feel better today.  Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 28, 2022 5:10 pm

1Wingman1 wrote:

Snipped… After 3 months in the St. Augustine shop we asked to see what problem the service manager was having disassembling the clutch.  He had used a hydraulic press on the clutch and really deformed part of it and still never got it apart.  We had a loaner motorcycle for those 3 months and she rode my Silver Wing.  The bright side for my wife was when I traded that broken down Reflex scooter for a new Silver Wing for her. 

Notwithstanding the 1Wingman1’s tender 80 years, and the Driven Pulley bearing noise, the above experience speaks volumes to doing one’s own maintenance. Replacing that noisy DP bearing by purchasing the DP assembly (including bearings & grease) from Honda costs ~$80. 

I always wanted t’fix me one of them scooter things”
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 01, 2022 12:07 pm

Tim,are you referring to part no. 23205-MCT-305?

I'm still working on a home-made tool to replace those bearings but you've got me thinking. If that is the part you refer to, then I'm sickened to report that it costs $394.00 (US Dollars) here in the UK.

"This must be a misprint!"?

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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 01, 2022 12:52 pm

Loosemarbles: I am responding because I really would like to be enlightened as to the problems, taxes, and other cost that people on your side of the pond have to deal with when ordering from the USA.

I did a quick search and found the 23205-MCT-305 in several locations for around $100. Inflation is rampant here.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 01, 2022 1:10 pm

Sorry, I may have been misleading. That $394 price is the equivalent UK price, i.e. if I order from UK supplier, £294 Sterling including VAT but plus postage.

I'm beginning to think that it would be cheaper to order from the USA and pay the import tax anyway!
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 01, 2022 4:38 pm

Loosemarbles wrote:
Tim, are you referring to part no. 23205-MCT-305?

Yes, that is the correct part #. But, holy cow!, that price sure jumped up. IIRC it was ~$80 just a month or so ago.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 02, 2022 6:20 am

I'm surprised that we Britishers are not known as 'The Kippers' throughout the world.

We are sure used to be being stitched up like one!
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PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 02, 2022 7:07 am

No mate, over here 'Kippers' is the acronym used for grown up kids who won't move out of their parents home as they're too used to the cushy cheapo lifestyle.

Kipper = ' Kids In Parents Pockets Eroding Retirement Savings'.
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Loosemarbles
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Loosemarbles


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Registration date : 2016-10-01

Oil change: This must be a misprint! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 02, 2022 9:14 am

Thank goodness I never had any kippers!
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Oil change: This must be a misprint! Empty
PostSubject: Re: Oil change: This must be a misprint!   Oil change: This must be a misprint! I_icon_minitime

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