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Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeby Dale N. Yesterday at 11:46 pm

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» Eric Walker’s stripped caliper mounting bolt
Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeby Loosemarbles Sat Jan 28, 2023 11:09 am

» Replacing Panels/fairings
Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeby Eric Walker Fri Jan 27, 2023 11:49 am

» my Silverwing/Corbin Sparrow transplant needs a battery
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» All electrics gone on 2007 FJS600 A7 Silver Wing
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 Starter won't turn over

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kitchenman
Cosmic_Jumper
john grinsel
Raygirardi
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Raygirardi
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PostSubject: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 19, 2021 1:00 am

Hey all battery was dead as I think I left the seat not fully closed in which the storage light depleted the batt, charged up now but starter won't turn over, all dash lights are on and kickstand and hand brake work as I can hear the clicks. Where should I look first?
Also feel a vibration in the hand brake once, when I tried the first time, which was weird. Anyhow looking for help, I think it's electrical as there is gas in the tank from last year, but as I said won't even turn the starter...maybe that's my first check...thanks, ray
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 19, 2021 7:54 am

old bike, old battery? Have battery load tested and be prepared to buy new battery.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 19, 2021 8:32 am

It is a courtesy to introduce yourself to the forum in the, um… Introduction section as your first post.
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Raygirardi
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Number of posts : 9
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 19, 2021 12:34 pm

Sorry, thought I did that about 8 months ago when I signed up.....
No worries
Ray , nickname "Razor" been riding on and off for 25 years, from Kawasaki 600, Honda Seca 750, then took a break and been riding scooters the last 15 years and now I have the SWing, living in northern Alberta
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kitchenman
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 19, 2021 8:11 pm

Hi, I had a problem recently, I took off the rear left panel, lifted the cover off the starter relay, turned on the ignition, shorted out the two metal strips on the relay and instantly the starter turned and the engine started
The problem turned out to be the rear brake switch, shorted out the terminals until I could get another.
If the engine had not started at least I had isolated the problem, or at least eliminated 3 possible culprits
Hope that helps
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http://kitchenman.co.uk
johnd
Silver Wing Expert
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PostSubject: Starter .   Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 04, 2022 6:08 pm

Well, after removing the fairing so as to replace the left handlebar horn switch assembly and the Walo Bad boy horn that lasted 8 years, I seem to have also removed or cut wires used in my power socket located in my glove compartment and some other wires, I could not start the bike. Battery is fine and all the fuses turn on when checking with test light. I ordered the starter relays and installed just now. Still no start but hear a click at the relay when turning on the unit. Funney thing did happen at the dealer thought. They could not find the realy on ther computer. after calling two more times I was told they dont carry the relay but if they had to order it, it would cost $ 105.00.
I said what the hell. I just ordered from Amazon, and they were about $ 8.99 for 5.
Guess I will be sending them back.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2022 9:32 am

It sounds like you have a wiring fault finding task on your hands. If you've got the front fairing removed the wiring should be fairly accessible.

$105.00 for a relay? Wow! Anyhow, good luck and I hope your SW is running soon.
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johnd
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Number of posts : 529
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2022 10:43 am

Good Morning and thank you. Maybe I should open a motorcycle garage. It takes 2 months to get an appointment here.
I could die in that time. Hahaha
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2022 11:01 am

You mean two months' wait to get your bike into a dealer for repair etc???

I take it you'll be doing the repair yourself then?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2022 11:07 am

That Starter Motor Relay is difficult to locate on the parts fiche. It’s on the Battery page. And, yeah, it is in the $100+ range. IIRC it’s a pretty universal Honda starter relay —not to be confused with the other low current relays on the Silverwing.

Have you tried jumping out your existing starter relay? Do be sure that the scoot is on the center stand if you do try bypassing it.

If you do bypass the relay and the starter motor cranks vigorously and/or the engine runs then you can reasonably assume that the starter relay is defective. If it cranks yet doesn’t run then the problem is elsewhere.

And if you’re bypassing the relay and getting a good healthy “clack” of the starter bendix engaging but the starter motor itself doesn’t turn then the starter motor itself might be jammed.

But before you get too far into the weeds with this, have you checked the battery terminals to insure there are good connections? Weak battery connections can cause all sorts of problems.
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johnd
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2022 12:07 pm

Again excellent information and much appreciated. The battery is excellent. When reading the wiring diagram, it looked like the starter relay was on the left side under the rear cover and that was where the click was coming from. Is it located somewhere else? And yes I will continue to plug along and try to fix it waiting for my Dr. Appointment with the mechanic .
Thanks Cosmic, you always are a huge help trying to help all of us. You are much appreciated.
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cello33
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2022 4:14 pm

Starter motor cutout on the side stand.........
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper


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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 05, 2022 5:39 pm

johnd wrote:
(Snip)… it looked like the starter relay was on the left side under the rear cover and that was where the click was coming from. Is it located somewhere else? (Snip)

Remove the left side panel.

The Starter Relay is located approximately just below the fuses and toward the front of the ECM.

Best bet to find the Relay is to follow the big battery wire (hot side) from where it passes thru the battery box. That hot wire (black IIRC) runs a short way to end at the Starter Relay which is covered by a rubber boot. Just “peel” the rubber boot up. At the forward side of the Relay is another big wire going from the Relay to the starter motor. The battery side and the starter motor side of the relay are divided by a low plastic divider.

Shorting the two terminals of the relay with a hefty wire should activate the starter motor.
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johnd
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2022 9:58 am

Outstanding! You make my life easy and again appreciate you. Will check today. Thanks.
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johnd
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 06, 2022 1:49 pm

It's alive, ITS ALIVE! as soon as I touched both turmanals, it sprang to life. It's only been 3 weeks but I really missed the purring sound and the smell of spent fuel. So. Now that I have eliminated the possibility of the battery, solenoid, relay and had replaced the starter button with an OEM, what should I be looking for now?
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zrx212
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Number of posts : 419
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Location : Ocala, FL
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2022 11:48 am

johnd wrote:
It's alive, ITS ALIVE!  as soon as I touched both turmanals, it sprang to life. It's only been 3 weeks but I really missed the purring sound and the smell of spent fuel.  So. Now that I have eliminated the possibility of the battery, solenoid, relay and had replaced the starter button with an OEM, what should I be looking for now?

Note to simplify, SR= Starter Relay ,

Well, by jumping the big terminals on the solenoid/starter relay you literally bypassed it, only proved that battery is good, starter motor works and scooter runs, not that the SR actually works?, in any case the SR is not a common failure item. But the fact that the scooter runs does eliminate a lot of possibilities, really narrows it down to either no power or ground to SR activating wires, but check easy stuff 1st. I would be more suspect of LH/rear brake lever, 2 position dual switch, if you pull the lever slowly and listen closely, 1st click is brake lights, 2nd click is "limit" switch, the limit switch directly controls the power to SR activation.

Do a quick check, remove 2 connectors from switch facing aft, jump connectors with section of wire, wire clip, etc. "Do not let jumper touch any metal parts", turn key on, side-stand up, scooter should crank/start "without pulling LH brake lever". if it does your switch is bad or your not pulling lever hard enough scratch If no crank/start with jumper installed, report back, there's other things to check.

Is a very simple system, here's the diagram.

Starter won't turn over  Startc10
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zrx212
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 419
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 07, 2022 12:04 pm

Side note, the side-stand switch itself is not really suspect because scooter runs, in addition to providing a ground for the starter relay, when up, it also provides a reference ground to ECM which allows scooter ignition, etc., to work.

Starter won't turn over  Igniti10
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johnd
Silver Wing Expert
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Number of posts : 529
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 08, 2022 2:15 pm

More good information. Thanks very much. Will check as soon as I get home.
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johnd
Silver Wing Expert
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 09, 2022 6:46 pm

It cranked over but would not start and the left brake was first on then off.
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zrx212
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 419
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Location : Ocala, FL
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 10, 2022 3:28 pm

johnd wrote:
It cranked over but would not start and the left brake was first on then off.

Sorry but your reply lacks clarity scratch , did it crank over with key on, when pushing the starter button but would not start/fire up, was the LH brake lever pulled hard or was jumper installed on aft wire terminals? If a jumper was installed the lever position is irrelevant, if not it cannot crank with brake released? please clarify?
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johnd
Silver Wing Expert
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Number of posts : 529
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 11, 2022 10:58 am

Good morning. The key was on and the cables disconnected. While connecting them with the jumper wire, I was pulling on the left brake lever. It turn over but would not start.
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 11, 2022 2:51 pm

If you were using the jumper lead to isolate the rear brake lever switch then there is no need to pull the rear brake lever; the jumper lead would be doing that for you.

In any case, if the engine is turning, but not starting, then maybe 'old petrol' is causing the problem. However, if it's an electrical issue, you'll need to go back to the wiring loom and try to rewire back to spec. by undoing all the mods which have been done. Question

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johnd
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PostSubject: No start.    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 12, 2022 10:19 am

Thanks for the reply. I will continue to plug away and hope for the best. If I do find anything, I'll post. All the best.
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cello33
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 12, 2022 12:36 pm

I had a similar issue with contaminated dirty fuel that was pushed down to the injector area, you may need to purge the fuel lines for a few times with the ignition switch. Before doing this try cranking with throttle at 50% then gradually at 100% if she fires up and splutters then dies at idle its your fuel lines full of contaminated cruddy fuel. Good luck
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johnd
Silver Wing Expert
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 12, 2022 4:04 pm

Thank you, but the scooter does run just fine if I go directly to the S/R starter relay.
The problem seems to be from the starter button to the relay. But as soon as I look at a wiring skematic, using a large magnifying lens my brain dies. It's like I have a mental block 🚫
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Starter won't turn over    Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 13, 2022 3:56 am

Stick with it. If the bike is actually running then you can't be far from finding the gremlin study
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johnd
Silver Wing Expert
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PostSubject: Starter .   Starter won't turn over  I_icon_minitimeTue Dec 13, 2022 9:34 am

I'm almost tempted, knowing I can bypass the starter switch , to just install an on, off switch and call it quits.
ZRX212 hi lighted on the first picture the side stand switch but the scooter does run if the S/R is jumped. I noticed there is a 15a fuse also hi lighted. Is that located along with the rest or someplace else? I did have power to all fuses located together.
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