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 New-to-me scoot

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zrx212
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri May 21, 2021 12:31 pm

I'm looking to buy a new-to-me Swing from a fellow who's ownership goes back a few years but he hasn't ridden it in about 2-3 years.

He hasn't done any maintenance beside oil changes and one new battery. The new battery was just purchased in getting it ready for the sale. The scoot won't start! Starter won't turn over and I don't even hear the solenoid kick in. He assumed the battery was dead hence the new battery. Since it run well the last he rode it I'm not concerned as to why yet as I'm sure it's probably a bad limit switch either at the brake, start button or kick-stand. I'm thinking one found, a little contact cleaner will take care of the problem.

What concerns me more, and will effect the purchase price, is the belt. How long do they normally last? The seller has never changed the belt and doesn't remember how many miles he may have put on it. Without getting into it and measuring the belt width would it be safe to assume the belt would need changing? The warning light was on. He assumed that was the reason it wouldn't start. A few punches on Google to me it was just a 'timer' and how to reset it. That being done, of course it STILL didn't start.

As a normal course of operation I'll be changing ALL the fluids. (oil, coolant and brake) I have not yet checked the brake pads for wear. The tires have plenty of tread left but after checking the date stamp on the tires I'll make the decision to change the tires if they are over four years old. Different folks will have different opinions on how old a tire can be,... mine is FOUR YEARS.

I guess my biggest concern is the belt. I saw a you-tube video of someone changing a belt while on a trip. I have less than no desire to do that. I'd rather do that BEFORE a trip. The curious question remains, "How long DO they last"?

Having ridden around 200K miles on a GoldWing I'm used to wrenchin' on my own scoots. I just wanna know what I'm in for before we settle on a price for the Swing.
Thanks in advance.
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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri May 21, 2021 1:14 pm

16k miles is the recommended life of a belt, honda don't spec a duration, although belts don't like sitting static for years. Belts are cheap enough to buy and it's a straight forward diy job so don't let that put you off buying the bike just include it in the rest of the service.
If the electrics are totally dead it might just be the main fuse which isn't in the fuse box.
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri May 21, 2021 2:31 pm

Yes, I know the warning light is timed to come on about 16K miles and that's a good time to at 'check' it and probably change it too. I was just wondering how many miles ti expect. A drive belt on a Harley could be expected to run at least 100K miles. I know, DIFFERENT FORCES are in effect here but I would also expect it to run much more that the 16K Honda says to "take it to the Stealer when the light comes on"!

The electrics aren't 'totally dead'. The headlight does come on and goes out when the 'start button' is depressed. That tells me at least two things. That main 30amp fuse is good as well as the start switch. Assuming nothing is wrong with the Bank Angle Sensor or the Engine Stop Relay that only leaves what would go wrong from just setting,... the Sidestand Switch and the limit switch on the left (rear) brake. Assuming that mice haven't been chewing on the wiring also. Lots of 'assumptions' here, I know but my electrical experience tells me to bet on those low current switches have some corrosion from just sittin' there for the last 2-3 years.
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JamieB
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri May 21, 2021 3:13 pm

Sounds like you need a battery as well as a belt......
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri May 21, 2021 3:18 pm

Has a NEW battery. No voltage drop when hitting the start button. As mentioned, I don't hear the starter solenoid energizing either, which is why I believe it's the safety switches. (side stand or rear brake switch)
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JamieB
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri May 21, 2021 3:20 pm

Listen for 2 clicks when pulling left lever in.
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri May 21, 2021 9:52 pm

I'll do that when I get to the bike again. Thanks!

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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 3:08 am

If you've got power then you are most likely right about the non starting bit.
Honda's belt recommendation will be based on worst case scenarios (fully loaded, riding at speed, riding in the mountains etc), if riding solo, gently and slowly the belt will last way longer.
You can measure it for wear and remove it to examine it for cracks etc (details in the service manual and on this forum somewhere), but to be honest by the time I'd done that I'd as soon put a new belt on for piece of mind, they only cost £80.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 7:48 am

Real easy to check the starter relay circuit.New-to-me scoot Sw9910
New-to-me scoot Sw10010
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 9:32 am

I have the downloaded manual and have looked over the wiring diagram as well as the trouble shooting pages that included these.
The present owner is willing to spend several 100$'s at a dealer to get it to start. I'm trying to talk him out of it and just lower his asking price instead. H hasn't made up his mind yet.

I see your from Ocala, zrx212. We are retired snow-birds and just moved in January from Zephyrhills to Palm Bay. I ride a Gold Wing here in Michigan but wanted the Swing for my Florida riding in the winter.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 10:43 am

Assuming the battery is actually up to snuff* chances are the problem is the “limit” switch in the left brake switch. Jump out the Bl/W and G/R (ie. the two 1/8” terminals) wires on that switch and it should start.

Good luck with your negotiation.

*You do know that it’s possible for a battery to have enough charge for the starter motor to merrily crank the engine, yet not have enough oomph left to power the ECU at that same time.

Have the battery load tested.
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 11:54 am

I can't say a new battery has never arrived in poor condition and I did have a volt meter connected to it while trying to start the scoot,... no voltage drop. I'm bettin' on the brake or sidestand switch.
A bad ECU is far down on my list of possibilities. The scoot is 300 miles away from me so no further testing or guessing until we settle on a price and I go pick it up.

The present owner is a friend and I have full confidence in his word that it ran fine when he parked it.The bike has been kept indoors. It's reasonable to believe the battery would go bad while sitting that long without being on a Battery Tender. It's also reasonable to assume the contacts on those two switches could grow a little green corrosion and not pass the small amount of current the starter relay would require. I've been an electrician for the last 55 years so that's the experience I'm drawing on.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 3:29 pm

I don't particularly like this method but it can be cleaned up after the " try it " phase. PB Blaster used sparingly. I use a Insulin syringe and put it on a switch, once all is working use a regular switch cleaner. This worked on a side stand switch that was being a PITA.
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 3:51 pm

oldwingguy wrote:
I don't particularly like this method but it can be cleaned up after the " try it " phase. PB Blaster used sparingly.  I use a Insulin syringe and put it on a switch, once all is working use a regular switch cleaner. This worked on a side stand switch that was being a PITA.

Why not just use a contact cleaner suitable for plastics? I can't see why PB Blaster would be of any use.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 5:18 pm

thecruiser wrote:
oldwingguy wrote:
I don't particularly like this method but it can be cleaned up after the " try it " phase. PB Blaster used sparingly.  I use a Insulin syringe and put it on a switch, once all is working use a regular switch cleaner. This worked on a side stand switch that was being a PITA.

Why not just use a contact cleaner suitable for plastics? I can't see why PB Blaster would be of any use.

Penetrating and lubing, cleaning for later, all I know is it's worked for me.
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 7:46 pm

oldwingguy wrote:
thecruiser wrote:
oldwingguy wrote:
I don't particularly like this method but it can be cleaned up after the " try it " phase. PB Blaster used sparingly.  I use a Insulin syringe and put it on a switch, once all is working use a regular switch cleaner. This worked on a side stand switch that was being a PITA.

Why not just use a contact cleaner suitable for plastics? I can't see why PB Blaster would be of any use.

Penetrating and lubing, cleaning for later, all I know is it's worked for me.

PB Blaster being a 'brand', I'm not sure which product you used. A 'lube' I wouldn't think be appropriate but if it works for you... you're sold on it. I'll stick with the contact cleaner. Thanks for what works for you though.
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zrx212
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeSat May 22, 2021 7:52 pm

thecruiser wrote:
I have the downloaded manual and have looked over the wiring diagram as well as the trouble shooting pages that included these.
The present owner is willing to spend  several 100$'s at a dealer to get it to start. I'm trying to talk him out of it and just lower his asking price instead. H hasn't made up his mind yet.

I see your from Ocala, zrx212. We are retired snow-birds and just moved in January from Zephyrhills to Palm Bay. I ride a Gold Wing here in Michigan but wanted the Swing for my Florida riding in the winter.
 Yes, Im a retired and re-in-stated Floridian, been back 7 years, my main stomping grounds where east Orange/Brevard counties, been in Ocala a year, lot slower pace here.
 
 IAC back on topic, I would suggest to try to get/buy a running bike, unless is ridiculously cheap and you are certain is an easy fix.
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Gramps
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 04, 2021 9:15 am

Just a thought..your new scoot won’t start...have pulled the left brake lever on while pressing the starter,
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thecruiser
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 04, 2021 9:35 am

Gramps wrote:
Just a thought..your new scoot won’t start...have pulled the left brake lever on while pressing the starter,

The left brake switch was the problem. A shot of contact cleaner took care of it.
Starts like a champ.
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Gramps
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PostSubject: Re: New-to-me scoot   New-to-me scoot I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 04, 2021 2:02 pm

That’s tremendous news. I bought a 1200 Bandit some time ago, and took it home . When I tried to start it the next day, it wouldn’t show any signs of life.
I phoned the dealer and said it wouldn’t start. He said have you pulled the clutch on when you press the starter....did just that and off it went.
Different machines have quirky systems to get them going. Glad you sorted it out.
Enjoy the Silverwing, they are really great machines.
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