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 Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue

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John F.
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 32
Location : Portland, Oregon USA
Points : 122
Registration date : 2020-04-19

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 7:36 pm

Hey all, while I am learning a lot about my 2002 SW, I still have a long way to go and could really use some assistance. My question, this time, is regarding the clutch/driven pulley assembly operation.

My SW shudders on take off and won't get going faster than about 40mph.
When on the center stand, the clutch/driven pulley assembly moves out towards the bell (I'm trying to use accurate terminology) as I increase the throttle. I decided to ride it without the covers to investigate further. What I noticed was that the assembly was not moving much if at all. The drive pulley faces seemed clean. When I pulled in after this latest test drive I noticed a strange smell. I'm assuming it's from the belt getting warm.

If anyone could shed some light on what might be happening that would be much appreciated. I've googled and searched the forum but I am having a hard time finding information.

Thank you for your time, from Portland, Oregon.

John
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 111
Age : 55
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 248
Registration date : 2020-03-11

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 8:11 pm

When your scooter won't get over 40mph, are you getting lots of revs from the engine or is it lugging at lower revs?
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John F.
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 32
Location : Portland, Oregon USA
Points : 122
Registration date : 2020-04-19

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 8:48 pm

Terry, the engine doesn't seem to be revving any higher than the 40 mph would require. However, when it's on the center stand i CAN get higher revs (I'm assuming you mean rpm).
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 111
Age : 55
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 248
Registration date : 2020-03-11

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 11:18 pm

Well that doesnt sound good to me. The CVT responds to the engine revs, as it revs higher the driven plate moves out, being pushed by the rollers in their curved tracks under centrifugal force. If the plate didn't move or was restricted you'd be stuck in "low gear" so you would get lots of revs but not a lot of speed. So I doubt the issue is the transmission, more likely the engine power output is low for some reason (and I know you won't want to hear that). Hopefully some more experienced Winger will chime in.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3409
Age : 77
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 7995
Registration date : 2009-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 25, 2020 11:41 pm

When you are doing that drive pulley / driven pulley observation does the driven pulley expand fully so that the belt drops down to the smallest diameter of the driven pulley at, say, 5-6000 RPMs? And while at that RPM is the belt also riding at, or close to, the drive pulley maximum diameter?

As long as you’ve got the belt case OFF you might want to remove the drive pulley and check the weights and also see that the ramp plate is sliding smoothly on the variator guides.

If a previous owner has installed Dr Pulley sliding weights one or more of them just may have flipped in the variator ramps and are impeding the drive pulley operation.
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John F.
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 32
Location : Portland, Oregon USA
Points : 122
Registration date : 2020-04-19

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2020 1:16 am

Cosmic-jumper, when riding, the driven pulley does not seem to expand at all. When it's on the center stand, it does. I was definitely planning on checking the weights.

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John F.
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 32
Location : Portland, Oregon USA
Points : 122
Registration date : 2020-04-19

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2020 2:34 am

Terry, I have a feeling it's going to be something ridiculous. Thanks for the feedback.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3409
Age : 77
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 7995
Registration date : 2009-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 26, 2020 8:08 am

John F. wrote:
(Snip). when riding, the driven pulley does not seem to expand at all. When it's on the center stand, it does. (Snip)


🤔 Hmm... It sounds like the Driven Pulley isn’t functioning under load. Here are two videos of the legendary Stefano Bonacasa refurbishing a driven pulley. Maybe these will suggest some resolution to you.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=szWjD9fDUy8

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=82MUIwzfCPo
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John F.
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 32
Location : Portland, Oregon USA
Points : 122
Registration date : 2020-04-19

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 27, 2020 3:04 pm

Ok, so now I feel like the biggest fool ever. Because it was idling fine I figured the plugs were good and the issue was elsewhere. Then I got to thinking about the fact it was a power issue like Terry mentioned. If plug#1 was fully functioning than the idle wouldn't be affected, I thought so I switch plugs on #2. First new plug was running kind of rough so I switched to new plug two. Too it out for a spin and bam, I was rolling again!

There were many positives that came from my experience. First, you guys are all awesome. I'm a newbie, but everyone was so helpful and patient with my ignorance. Secondly, I did have a bad FPR and I got that swapped as well as an oil and both filter change, new plugs, and some hoses too. Finally, I've learned a lot about my SW and vehicle systems in general. What a trip it's been.

Thank you Cosmic and Terry especially, for all your expertise and time. I couldn't have done this without your guidance.

Cheers,
John
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3409
Age : 77
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 7995
Registration date : 2009-06-12

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 27, 2020 8:11 pm

John, that’s why I keep these clear thinking, young, knowledgeable lads like Terry on hand here. If their simplistic advice and solutions don’t work then I’ll be happy to drag you out into the deep end of the pool for a more scary experience.Razz

Tim


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 111
Age : 55
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 248
Registration date : 2020-03-11

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 1:32 am

John I'm glad that worked out for you. I look on these forums very much as a two way street and I learn heaps from what everyone else gets up to. Thanks for posting the resolution, fingers crossed that you have exorcised your Swing demons for good!.

And Tim, thanks for suggesting I'm young, made my day!
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Marvincon
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Marvincon

Number of posts : 12
Location : Leicestershire UK
Points : 441
Registration date : 2019-05-06

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 3:52 am

Terry Smith wrote:
John I'm glad that worked out for you. I look on these forums very much as a two way street and I learn heaps from what everyone else gets up to. Thanks for posting the resolution, fingers crossed that you have exorcised your Swing demons for good!.

And Tim, thanks for suggesting I'm young, made my day!

I used to be 55 Laughing
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John F.
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 32
Location : Portland, Oregon USA
Points : 122
Registration date : 2020-04-19

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeSun Jun 28, 2020 11:44 am

Tim and Terry, I can only hope I'll be able to contribute some day. Certainly, I've learned a lot from you both and would love to pay that forward.
Thank you,
John
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Hiyo
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Hiyo

Number of posts : 79
Location : East Central Illinois
Points : 342
Registration date : 2019-10-22

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeWed Jul 01, 2020 6:16 pm

For what it's worth the previous owner of my 03 Swing said he needed to replace the plugs more than a few times in 28000mi. Besides a belt and oil changes that's about all it needed aside from a fork service that I did that helped a lot. Hope this helps ease your mind. 😐
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
Loosemarbles

Number of posts : 472
Location : South East England
Points : 1896
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 03, 2020 12:38 pm

Ditto Hiyo. Whenever my 2001 starts running and idling a bit weird, I replace the plugs. Usually the air filter too.

Seems to do the trick but it happens more often than you might think. Maybe it's just a quirk of the older models Question
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Hiyo
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider
Hiyo

Number of posts : 79
Location : East Central Illinois
Points : 342
Registration date : 2019-10-22

Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue Empty
PostSubject: Re: Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue   Clutch/Driven Pulley Issue I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 03, 2020 2:12 pm

I guess they are a bit old school, the older Swings anyway. I did notice a lot of difference after maintenance compared to some machines that you could hardly tell anything was done.
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