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 hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades

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abdullahb
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PostSubject: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 2:32 am

hello everyone, my name is abdallah bidawi, im a 35 yr old sports medicine specialist working at a local gym and currently managing the place. im married with 2 kids (boys) and for the past years, dropping and pickin them up from school has been a real hassle for me, so i decided to get a little scooter for that job, u see i was never a motorcycle fan myself, owned over 20 cars, tuned them all, reached high hp numbers on some (750+whp)... so cut the story short...
i started on june 2018 with a little yamaha jog to learn how to ride, a month later got a sym symphony st200, sold it 2 months later, got a yamaha aerox 155, tuned it to 183cc and  traded it for a vespa 300 gts supersport.
my friend always kept telling me "GET a SILVERWING 600" its the last one ull evet think of driving. kept tellin him its old...its too big for the traffic... till i drove one...and man, that thing is soo, nice and comfy to drive!! i was bought!
so i sold the vespa and got a 2004 fjs600a4 japanese silverwing thats been parked for 3yrs ina  garage and owned by another friend of mine. it had new IRC tyres and was fully serviced before parked, it had some plastic cracks...but i got it for a really good price...

so i checked everything on the bike with a mechanic and it was good.

first when i started driving it...it felt slow on the low end and when i  hit wot rpm would start on 3.5k and start increasing at about 100km/hr (62mph).. even with the Tmode on (better acceleration)

i had to do something...
so i took out the variator and it had 35g rollers in it!! and i knew the problem right away

so my mechanic offered to fix the problem and he told me (hey lets make it fun to drive)

so he shed some weight off the variator, fixed the roller ramps for the rollers to climb all the way up, and fixed the surface angle...did that on my aerox 155 and it was better than any performance variator that we tried (malossi pollini tdr usr)

and we put 20g rollers in it

u see when u shed some weight from the variator u should do accordingly to the rollers.. and he did something to the the variator FAN as well...

installed a malossi white spring in the back

now im really happy with how it drives

thought id share my experience with you guys...

id really like to know how the tmode switch operates

i know it makes u go faster ...but how!

moreover the mechanic told me that if i wanted extreme power..id have to delete the lambda sensor or the x-up ! whatever that is (x-up)..

someone mentioned earlier that old models didnt have a lambda sensor... but i think mine has it

i took some pics of the lambda wiring and ill post them next


Last edited by abdullahb on Mon Jan 20, 2020 1:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 2:49 am

hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades 20200115
hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades 20200116
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 2:50 am

im currently looking for non rusty bolts!😥
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 10:41 am

Welcome, abdallah. Glad to see you are enjoying your Swing as much as the rest of us. Interesting info. on your changes and interest in sparking it up. I enjoy it as much stock, but if I were your age and mechanical acumen, I would probably try the same. Have fun!
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 11:44 am

I checked on the Singapore Silver Wing forum* and could find no mention of a lambda (O2) sensor for early model FJS and JDM Silverwings. But that forum focuses mainly on the 400 cc version. I do recall reading somewhere that some of those early JDM versions came with some kind of gate valve on the exhaust. While I’m not sure what the purpose of that valve was, I’m pretty sure that it wasn’t a silencer bypass but, more so, it was some type of a restriction. A performance restriction perhaps.

Your photo seems to show a pair of mechanical cables leading down to the exhaust collector. A lambda sensor would be a dual-wire electrical plug.

Tim

* http://www.singaporebikes.com/forums/showthread.php/325894-lt-Info-gt-Silverwing-400cc-600cc-Tech-Corner
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 1:50 pm

so basically i have this valve on my exhaust! my mechanic told me if he deletes it, i willl unleash a real beast! do you guys have the same thing on ur exhausts ?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 3:28 pm

As far as I know it was only on early JDM models. I’ve never seen one or a photo of one, and don’t understand how it works or what triggers it.

I’d take the term, “unleash a real beast”, with a bit of skepticism. Our man, Sepp, has some interesting takes on variator weights which he’s pretty proud of. You might check his posts.
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 3:32 pm

hook me up with one of his posts
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 3:35 pm

my mechanic corrected me and told me that my wing doesnt have a lambda sensor and he was talkin about this flap thing in my exhaust! it closes at low end and opens up at higher rpms

it has a motor right next to the airfilter!

if that helps.. if you want ill take close pictures of it tomorrow Smile
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 13, 2020 7:45 pm

abdullahb wrote:
hook me up with one of his posts

https://hosiwi.blogspot.com/
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 14, 2020 2:40 am

woahh!! mine now is 6k on wot! but i dont like the rpm any higher! its a daily..ill maybe post a vid of the acceleration..
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Sepp
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 3:47 pm

Hi abdullahb
you might enjoy the original story too.
https://malaguti-spidermax.blogspot.com/
I saw the T switch mentioned in the asian forum and some interesting electronic hacks on the Italien forum.
But overall if it comes down to how to get the most with the least work, follow my "breadcrumbs (3 pink arrows)" on the Spidermax blog.

in your picture these are the brake cables and the lambda sensor is here

(circle)hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades Lambda10

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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 5:25 pm

now i have 20g rollers x8 in the variator... i have 6x26g dr pulley sliders...u think if i install them ill have a lot of difference? now my rpm at WOT is 6000 and it climbs up as i go..bike is fast...but i believe it could be faster.... what is ur insight about this tmode thingy...i need ur insight and wide experience on this... thank you
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 5:33 pm

i read all articles with the 3 arrows! amazing stuff! and thats a quick 400cc silverwing! did u lose topspeed!?
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Sepp
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 7:45 pm

have not clocked top speed since 120 kmh is the limit here. But I did a short passing manover while the spedo read 140 and that was below 8000 rpm. so I think vmax with 160kmh /100Mph should be no problem and it should stay below 9000 rpm (red zone from the 400cc is 9500 rpm).
My main goal is the fastest response and to keep the engine over a fast range and most situations in the 5000 to 7000 rpm area where max torque meets max HP. It is also the most economic way to drive since it is the sweet spot.
With the 600 you will need to go 3 to 5 grams per weight higher than with my 400, but that is easy to try out if you add weights to the sliders as I did.
It also depends on your riding area, I have mostly steep mountains with steep hairpin tuns where you are below 20kmh but need rpm over 4000 for a smooth experience (for fun) or flat highways for quick moving around but they have sometimes very short on ramps where you need a brutal acceleration to hit the traffic above 100kmh to easy slip in. (I made a couple videos how the bike reacts with my 4 slider mod.)

while the 2 cylinder 400cc Honda needs 4 sliders with 60%=126 gram of the original weight.
The same 126 gram setup with 6 Malossi 21 gram rollers shows a totally different character. More docile and not so flexible in the rpm band much less rpm control at the same speed.
So the whole magic is in 4 instead 8 pieces what move the pulley pressure plate.
The variator is stock not Malossi. Dr. Pulleys and Tech Pulleys work best with stock variators.

tips on your video
Crop as I did just below the instruments and also the sky on top. you need a bigger view to the instruments and the street. (I used shortcut.org  and avidemux)
Also show the acceleration from 1500rmp while the bike stands to 100 kmh in a safe area with full throttle.

You have to test what works best for you, but start with 4 sliders around 33 -36 gram each
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https://hosiwi.blogspot.com/
Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 8:42 pm

No matter what rollers - sliders you use or don't, keep the engine in balance. Opposite of each other.
Crank shaft bearing damage-wear will happen if it's way out of balance.

US SW maxes out at 105 mph 168 km. Engine is at redline at 8500 RPM.

Looks like 400SW revs a little higher. 9500 RPM is that true.??
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 9:06 pm

[quote="abdullahb"]hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades 20200115
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 11:07 pm

thank a lot guys! feels like family in here!
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 15, 2020 11:23 pm

"while the 2 cylinder 400cc Honda needs 4 sliders with 60%=126 gram of the original weight."
u mean of the total.roller weights?

moreover my variator weight and surface fan weight has beeen reduced..so lighter roller or slider weights are required to achieve higher rpm.... any benefits of reducing the variator weight?
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16, 2020 7:22 am

youtu.be y8RzaVflixo
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16, 2020 7:23 am

heres another quick vid...ill take a proper one when it stops raining!
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Sepp
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 16, 2020 6:10 pm

no, do not change too many parameters.
when a pulley disk is worked over in a mashine shop to get another angle you will get longterm trouble with the belt because it does not engage full anymore on a difernt angle.
I prefer the KISS method
Keep It Simple Stupid
I tried pretty much everything in the CVT MOD area no clutch part was changed because the standard clutch get enhanced automatically with the 4 Slider mod.
Install the original 8 rollers and take every second roller away, close CVT and test.
I had days there was my CVT OPEN 4 TIMES A DAY to see how another mod would work out.
Especially when I worked with the spacer what keeped the driving pulley farther apart and so lets the belt start lower with more rpm.
It is not just about acceleration but control. You never had a more responsive and controllable scooter than with just 4 rollers / SLIDERS
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 17, 2020 12:34 am

ok sir! thanks a lot for the advice!
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 18, 2020 2:50 am

today I will install 35g dr pulley sliders... 4 of them! and will start testing from there!

now my total roller weight is 160g currently rpm is 6k at wot.. climbs fairly fast

with 35x4... it will be 140g! expecting a big difference!

don't forget that the 600 has a less teeth in the final drive! so longer ratio!

lets hope for the best! will keep you posted!
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 18, 2020 12:33 pm

update!

so my mechanic didnt have the time to increase the weights on the dr pulley 26 slider weights!

so i said the hell with it! i put 4 of them ON.. 4x26 which is pretty low for a 600

but woah! acceleration was brutal! no hesitation! as if its a manual bike... but topspeed suffered! rpm was 7.5 at demand! couldnt take any vids

so i tried installing 6.. rpm was 6.5... acceleration was good.. but not wow!

i tired 4 regular rollers.. 2 of them weighed 30 and 2 weighed 28

it was around 7.2k rpm .. it was good.. but did not fulfill my taste..

so i told him to make the dr pulley sliders 35g each to try them on monday... or tuesday

back to 156 total weight... 6.2 at wot.. and great topend...

but it has hesitation when you wanna take off.. to be fair i dont like sudden acceleration.. makes me wanna keep playing with the bike.. killing gas mileage...

but great idea with the colt 4slider thing

i believe 4 sliders weighing 32 will do the trick in my setup! cuz i have a variator and surface fan thats been machined to weigh less!

after machining the variator... 24.5gx8 rollers.. felt like the 35gx8 stock... so 24.5x8 is my baseline....
so thats 196gx60%
29.4x4 rollers wud do the trick....

but as i realized in ur vids.. the thing doesnt keep going after 100km/hr ... did you ever try to go to 170km/hr with that setup?

@sepp


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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 18, 2020 1:38 pm

sorry i got confused in my previous post! too many tryouts today! lol.. i already tried 29gx4 total and it was too revy! so will go heavier .. say start at 35gx4 and start reducing for my liking!
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Sepp
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 19, 2020 5:44 pm

In my first videos you do not see the traffic. The reason it ends at 100 is, I am pulling into traffic on the highway. There should be a video section where I go from 100 to 135 passing a car. But our speed limit is 120 and the fines are very steep and we do have radar and camera surveillance in certain parts of the road.
The main thing is the acceleration from stand still up to 100, after that it is pretty much the same as stock since both are then in similar rpm bands.

Just had a look at my blog, the first video is Honda SW-T400 0 to 135kmh in 14 sec
https://hosiwi.blogspot.com/2019/11/honda-swt-400-improved-acceleration-via.html#more

go full screen to actually see the instrument panel and it goes up to 138km/h until I notice that I am too fast and reduce speed.
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Jan 20, 2020 1:11 am

maybe because of the brutal acceleration...u dont feel that the power is linear anymore! maybe thats why it felt slower uptop
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 12:09 pm

installed 4 bando 35g rollers.. and damnnnn the thing is fast... pulls like a freight train!
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Sepp
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 1:37 pm

as I told you a couple of postings ago:
"You have to test what works best for you, but start with 4 sliders around 33 -36 gram each"
enjoy a motor what can now live up to it´s full potential and a Silver wing what should leave all other 600ccs in the dust. Find yourself a Burgman 650 to race.
Just be carefully some rollers are not designed to handle the double weight.
see: http://malaguti-spidermax.blogspot.com/2011/09/warning-bad-piaggio-rollers-batch.html

The Dr. Pulley sliders can! So did the original Piaggio, but when they redesigned the 500cc with a lot of cheaper materials **** happened.

You can easy spot a failing roller - the rpm behave different, it runs a bit higher.
Be save and enjoy
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 1:43 pm

ur a mastermind man! thanks a lot

bando rollers are really good and made in japan... product that i trust!
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 1:44 pm

now rpm climbs fast to 6.5k and holds there... pullin like crazy....a friend of mine drove it
... he was like wtff did u do to it!! hahaha

he also drove it before when it has the 20gx8 rollers
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 1:50 pm

I don't think a Burgman 650 is a fair comparison with the Silver Wing. It's performance is similar, but it's a lot heavier, has a more complex transmission, is more complicated to service, and a pain in the butt to physically move about. You're got to be pretty confident in your ability to throw the Burgman about on twisty roads too.

Then again my Forza seems comparable with that of the Silver Wing, maybe because it’s about 60kg lighter and has a more up to date engine.
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 1:56 pm

forza? no match my friend...raced an xmax 300 2019... left it like its on full stop
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 1:57 pm

and that xmax 300 raced a fully tuned forza 300 2019 and pulled on it by a bus length
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Jan 21, 2020 1:58 pm

im wondering what will happen if i race a tmax 530!!!
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 22, 2020 12:59 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4DO1g9xKgE

this is one fast silverwing!
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 02, 2020 8:27 am

hey sepp...you think the same colt thingy could be used for a yamaha aerox 155? like using 3 heavy rollers instead of 6?? it has 13gx6 = 78grams in total..
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 02, 2020 8:33 am

i found this thai guy... calculating roller weights... and multiplying it by 8000(rpm at peak hp) and dividing it by a 1000... so 13gx6 x 8000 ÷ 1000 = 624
then explaining in thai 15gx6 x 8000 ÷ 1000= 720 and then they nod their heads and talk in thai and agree on it...any idea about this formula??
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 02, 2020 8:39 am

https://youtu.be/wm5Plthn6aQ

minute 18:50
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Cosmic_Jumper
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hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades Empty
PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 02, 2020 11:58 am

abdullahb wrote:
i found this thai guy... calculating roller weights... and multiplying it by 8000(rpm at peak hp) and dividing it by a 1000... so 13gx6 x 8000 ÷ 1000 = 624
then explaining in thai 15gx6 x 8000 ÷ 1000= 720 and then they nod their heads and talk in thai and agree on it...any idea about this formula??

Perhaps it’s that I’m mathematically challenged, but what’s the point?

Put in Dr Pulley sliders, or Tech Pulley Flying Rollers, or otherwise change the variator weights from the OEM total or 224gm (28gm x 8 = 224), and the performance changes. Who rides at 8000 rpm anyway?
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Mech 1 twa
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hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades Empty
PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 03, 2020 8:49 pm

Judging from your first post SW is already been modified at bit after you got it. I see you are progressing to faster bikes that's good. Speed, power is fun and that's what its about.. Seat time is the best teacher. If you want to go fast buy a larger bike you will find SW is slow. RIDE ON
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abdullahb
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PostSubject: Re: hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades   hello from lebanon, 2001 JDM400 performance upgrades I_icon_minitimeTue Feb 04, 2020 2:04 pm

my friends.. i dont like getting something thats already fast.. i like making something slow.. FAST! fastest in it's class! bought a new aerox again! project scooter :D
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