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 Belt slipping or clutch slipping?

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hawkeye3guns
Jim L
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Jim L
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Belt slipping or clutch slipping? Empty
PostSubject: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 2:04 am

Hi Guys, new Swing owner here. I bought a 2002 model, it had a noise in the rear end when I bought it. The guy said that the belt was original and it was glazed, so I went through it and took some emery cloth and deglaze the clutch pads, put a new belt on it, and I still have that squeal when I take off from a stop. It does go away after 10mph, and about 3000rpm.
I really noticed it yesterday on a freeway on ramp that was stop and go, and up hill. The bike only has 3800 miles on it, but I did notice that there were hairline cracks in the clutch pads when I was deglazing them, don't know if that's normal or not.
doesn't seam to matter if I take off slow or fast, still the same outcome. Not too sure what the next step is, but if anyone has any suggestions it would be much appreciated. Thanks
Jim
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hawkeye3guns
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Belt slipping or clutch slipping? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 3:47 am

Hi Jim.
Whilst you have got the transmission cover off did you check the bearing inside the cover that slips over the clutch end? on my sons 2002 Swing The bearing had siezed and when free'ed off its was grumbly and squealed at low speeds. Had to replace it (what a pain in the butt that was) but it cured his fault
Denzil
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 9:56 am

I agree. It does sound like an Outer Cover bearing noise. If Denzil can explain how to replace that bearing as a DIY task I would like to see his technique.

It does require heating the area around the bearing very hot so that the bearing becomes loose in that blind cavity. There seems to be no way for any bearing puller to grasp the bearing, but supposedly Honda has a magic tool for that. So IMO you're going to have to slam the heated case (seal face down) on to some sturdy 2X4s to get the bearing to pop out while not damaging that case mating surface.

An alternative would be to take that outer case off and have your Honda dealer do the job.

Here is a link for the parts list: http://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Honda/Scooter/2003/FSC600D+AC/SWINGARM/parts.html

Tim
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 10:39 am

The outer case bearing is a seal bearing and is not the one that make's the noise. It's the roller bearing deep inside the clutch bell. Look deep inside ,you will see the bearing that was not grease properly from the factory. All Swings have the same problem .Use lithium grease to pack the bearing ,and the winding noise will go away.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 10:49 am

Deglazing the clutch pads with a light sanding is the best way to clean the pads ( shoes) . It take 5 more minutes to do when you clean the cover after inspection of the drive belt.
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Jim L
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 11:46 am

Well it looks like I will be pulling the clutch off again for inspection, I'll have to check everything a little more closely this time. Thanks for the help
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 12:12 pm

Go to Cheapcycle Parts, # 9 Faceset driven pulley 23205-mct-305 bearing# 19,& 20 ,one needle, and one roller bearing that needs to be grease.
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hawkeye3guns
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 1:49 pm

Okay I turned up a peice of steel to be a sliding fit inside the bearing. Then packed the bearing space behind the bearing with high temp grease. Warmed up the casing with a butane torch and using the steel I had turned up, (as a piston) You hammer the piece of steel down into the bearing centre.
Because grease is not compressable the hammer force is then pushed back onto the bearing's backside and the bearing is forced out. Repeat heating and hammering the piston until the bearing is out. It takes a while due to the casing cooling down but it worked.
NOTE do not overheat the casing overwise the grease will catch fire
Replacing the new bearing was easy.
Denzil
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 7:41 pm

Better than Lithium grease is Molybdenum Paste. Honda 60 or Loctite Moly Paste. Not auto store moly grease. The Honda and Loctite past is 60% and 65% moly content respectively. The stuff isn't cheap but gives long life protection because the molybdenum will remain long after the vehicle or grease part has dried up and gone.
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NWSSC
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Belt slipping or clutch slipping? Empty
PostSubject: Clutch noise   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 9:09 pm

It will be interesting to here the outcome of your repairs regarding the clutch noise on your S/W.
I have to agree with Tinman and would strongly suggest you lube the needle bearing inside the clutch driven face before you reassemble the transmission cover. I think you will find this bearing dry as I have found on my own S/W and many others. This small bearing does not have much if any load on it but temporarily spins on take off and then turns with the clutch unite as you start moving.
It is a no brainier to lube. Honda does not have a good picture but you will find it on page 10-13 --10-14 of the O/H manual.
Cheap Cycle parts has a better picture. It is pictured as #20 (91101-MCT )on the clutch driven page and sells for $7.87.
I would think there is no reason to replace it. Hope this helps
Howard  NWSSC
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http://www.northwestsuburbanscooterclub.com/
Jim L
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Belt slipping or clutch slipping? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeThu Jan 15, 2015 10:43 pm

Thanks a lot for all the info, and I will definitely let you know what I find out. Hope to do the teardown this weekend.
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Jim L
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PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 16, 2015 1:13 am

Now that I think about it, I did put some High temp grease on the needle bearing when I had it open, and it was dry.
One thing that I didn't do was sand the clutch Outer surface, if that was too smooth would it make the squeal?
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tinman
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Belt slipping or clutch slipping? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Belt slipping or clutch slipping?   Belt slipping or clutch slipping? I_icon_minitimeFri Jan 16, 2015 7:11 am

Don,t forget the roller bearing deep inside the clutch assembly that keep's the clutch inline and allow the clutch to spine freely when the clutch is idling. Bearing #19 ,and #20 are there to spine free when swing is at idle.
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