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Old Limey
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Dr. D
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PostSubject: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 1:45 pm

I purchased an '05 Swing with less than 10,000 miles on it earlier in the year.  I just went over 12,000 miles and given the noise and vibration emanating from the drive at move off, I suspect I will need a new drive belt.  In looking at replacements, I have discovered that the belt by Erlandson is consistently priced significantly less than the OEM Honda belt.  In fact, the local DoWee Cheatem & How Honda Dealer wants over $160 for the belt (including delivery charges as they do not have one in stock - parts department said they had never had a call for any Swing parts).  On the Wally World of the Internet - aka eBay, the Erlandson belt is about $80 and the OEM is at $116.  

Has anyone any experience with Erlandson?  That is, I am not interested in second or third hand WOM, I would like comments from folk who have actual experience with Erlandson, either good, bad or indifferent. I have searched and I can not find any reviews with respect to their quality, endurance and fitment vis-à-vis the OEM.  All I have found on this site is some diatribe from folk who believe that any part is only a good part if and only if it is a Honda part.
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 2:10 pm

The 'shudder' you might be getting at take-off could be the clutch 'glazing'. Just try holding in a brake and running up the rpm's to 4,000 for about 4-5 seconds and the shudder should go away. The other thing to do is to remove the belt and de-glaze the clutch pads, which takes a long time. This is a very easy fix and don't worry if you smell something it will go away very quickly.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 2:36 pm

Dr. D wrote:
 All I have found on this site is some diatribe from folk who believe that any part is only a good part if and only if it is a Honda part.

Here's some more of your aforementioned diatribe:

The drive belt is an integral part of the drive train. I would want the utmost reliability with a factory spec'd and Honda guaranteed belt. When it comes to tires, batteries, lights, filters, spark plugs, or oil, sure, buy aftermarket.

Is the $38 difference that critical to your budget? Over the many years that the new belt should last you, is it really cost effective to gamble on an Erlandson?
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 2:53 pm

'All I have found on this site is some diatribe from folk who believe that any part is only a good part if and only if it is a Honda part.'

Your tone is bordering on the unacceptable here.
This is by and large a friendly club full of members with a wealth of knowledge and experience.

If you are foolish enough to denegrate good advice freely given you should consider seriously whether or not this is the right place for you..


Last edited by MikeO on Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 3:58 pm

My take after 300,000 miles with rubber band drive scooters --an 10 of them, all bought new------and no experience with anything but OEM belts for example=they work, any money saved is probably a little....and you could end up walking----clutch take up could be the jerking, etc...... get some experience with SilverWing, then comment---people that have been around with SilverWings for awhile, have their reasons to stick with OEM. I find rubber band drive scooters are not cheap to keep, when riding a lot period!! Even doing own work.
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 4:22 pm

Dr D,

I didn't even read that last line of yours and I'm glad MikeO said something.  I had the SWing for 7 years and never heard of this Erlandson belt you mentioned.  I tried a kevlar belt once, and it did what the OEM belt does, and I had no problem with it at all.  But a couple of others have tried it and it shredded on them so after those experiences I stuck to the OEM belt.  If you can get the OEM belt cheaper on the internet than do so.

But as MikeO said, that kind of talk is not what we as a group would like.  There are other Silverwing sites on the web, so go there and ask, but no one goes to those sites anymore.  They all came to this site so you should be aware of that.  If you want to try that belt you mentioned then feel free and use it.  I just have never heard of that belt before so I know I would never try it.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 4:29 pm

Dr D. You could do us a favour and run a test. Buy your cheap alternative and come back in 12,000 miles and tell us how well (if) it lasted.

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Dr. D
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PostSubject: Drive Belts - interesting rejoiner   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 4:59 pm

Dear Readers:  I had no idea that the use of the word diatribe, which was meant to refer to extended and extensive conversations, would so incite folks.  I would suggest that one would be less than truthful were one not to describe a significant number of posts on this site as such.  Nevertheless, for those who were offended by the use of one word, my apology.  

That being said, my query was for a critique based on experience rather than belief, WOM, whimsical fantasy or one's imagination.  It seems that such does not exist based on the responses to my post.  

The question was posed regarding the significance of $$ to my budget.  Yes, any amount that I spend on a product in excess of the price of a product when both are in a state of parity vis-à-vis the other, is indeed significant (to me at least).  This was the rationale that led to the initial post. i.e. Is there parity between the two belts?  

There is a dearth of information regarding the specifications of both belts. Both producers lack specificity when describing their products and/or manufacturing processes. Hardly enough to make a rational decision on.

Thanks for prompt responses and thoughtful suggestions...
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 5:27 pm

I referred to your tone not the actual word used.

Like it or not I repeat it is bordering on the unacceptable here.

Colin has issued a reasonable request and I for one will be interested to hear the results of your trial with the belt.
Experience counts for a great deal and many a rider hoping to save money has been deceived by advertisements for cheaper 'Kevlar' belts only to find through experience they do not last nearly as long as Honda (in this case) belts and then find out that all scooter belts contain Kevlar.
It is just the same with Piaggios - my former maxiscooter - and doubtless with Burgmans, T-maxes et al.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 5:39 pm

I concur with Mike's last sentence. Experience has on shown on other bikes that the OEM belt is far cheaper in the long run. Is Honda likely to be different?


What rubs peple the wrong way is when a new member arrives, seemingly to ask for advice, and then appears to denigrate it. You are correct in suggesting that people should speak from experience. I think we do just that. The reader is free to make up their own mind and, we hope, to report their findings.
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Dr. D
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 6:30 pm

Tone??? My understanding of tone comes from its definition. To wit: A writer's attitude toward subject, audience, and self.
Tone is primarily conveyed through diction, point of view, syntax, and level of formality. I went back and re-read the last sentence several have referenced. When I wrote it as summary of many posts on this site. I thought it a fair assessment then and I have no reason to say otherwise now.

Gentle Readers, I came not to the site to defame, inflame, incite, insult, demean or debase anyone. My purpose was to pose a conditional question, nothing more, nothing less. If the structure of my language is nettlesome to you, please do not be offended as none is or was intended. If such exists in your mind, its genesis is not my responsibility. As far as I can discern, I have not denigrated any advice by either word or intent. To do so would be rather oxymoronic when that is exactly what one has requested.

Meanwhile, my quest for information continues. Well it may be that it turns out to be quixotic but I hope that it will be at least as educational as was my sojourn here.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 6:51 pm

At 12,000 miles, the belt is likely fine but can understand perhaps changing it based on age.

Buy the OEM belt unless you like gambling. FWIW, the OEM belt also uses Kevlar - hence I won't use the term "Kevlar belt" to differentiate OEM from non-OEM. Maybe the non-OEM belt is okay, maybe it isn't. That's the gamble. You can pay $116 or so mail order for an OEM Honda belt (I paid $130 at a dealer here, so $160 + a "delivery" charge is high), and you'll know that the OEM belt will be good for 16,000 miles. Or you can save a little money ($36) and possibly be broken down and buying another belt (this time for $116!).

I haven't heard of anyone having an OEM belt break before Honda's 16,000 mile change interval. So I'd stick with a known good belt. These belts are deceptively high tech and nothing like the fan belt in a 1970s car. That's why they cost what they do.

As for the "shudder", it's hard to know what you're feeling (probably not clutch unless you somehow are riding with the clutch slipping for long periods of time - so not highway speed, not idle, but that slow zone where it grabs and disengages), in which case if you really glaze it (causing the binding material to end up on the surface of the pad), you need to sand the pads, not just try slipping the clutch (which is what running the engine against the breaks does - it will heat up the clutch tremendously, which, ironically, is what *causes* glazing).

When you have your belt out, check your rollers for flat spots/sticking, check your ramp plate for smoothness, check your pulleys for smoothness, and make sure you clean out the belt case filter well - heat is the enemy of these belts, and a clogged belt case filter will guarantee you'll run hot.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 7:37 pm

Hey Doc, just buy the Erlandson belt, and be done with it.
I don't think Columbus checked with all the members of the Old World before setting sail.
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Slickie
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 20, 2014 8:33 pm

Wow. This topic has turned into a pretty amazing dogfight.

Amongst all the high test replies, there are some superb experienced based suggestions and recommendations one will not find elsewhere regarding the S/W. I respectfully suggest we reduce the the caffeine intake on this one or it could become…..handbags at noon!!

When it comes to the S/W, You guys are just the best. I predict the good Dr. will realize that sooner or later..
cheers,
slick
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 1:15 am

Unfortunately this kind of misunderstanding is much more common in written communication vs. face to face. Emoticons help replace some of what is lost by "body English" though we don't have a very wide variety of them to utilize. The word 'diatribe' does have a negative connotation according to the dictionary but the writer may have understood it to have a different meaning or shading.

https://www.google.com/search?q=diatribe+definition&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=

Let us not allow what is most likely merely less than perfect transfer of information among us get in the way of conversing our ideas and opinions and interrupting our comradeship here on the site.

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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 2:10 am

Fit the Erlandson belt mate, and stick a car tyre on the rear wheel that'll save you a few more bucks too. Fancy a pair of Grip Puppies don't bother, a couple of bits of that foam pipe insulation works just as good. An Airhawk cushion for riding comfort maybe? Save your money and use the PVC bladder out of a wine box.

Anything else you'd like to save money on just drop me a line I know plenty. Donate half a dozen of your dirty shirts to a local charity store, then go back a day or so later and buy them back freshly laundered. That works out a lot cheaper than buying detergent, fabric softener, and using a washer dryer.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 2:27 am

Least said, soonest mended.

The moderators agree that the tone of the OP was more or less unacceptable.

The matter will not be resolved by all and sundry trying to add their little bit of perceived wisdom to the thread.
That side of this business is closed.

Suggestions of ways to save money or increase safety are always acceptable of course.
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bikerboy
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PostSubject: Drive belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 4:52 am

Why has no-one mentioned the Gates belt which is also considerably less expensive than the Honda OEM one ??
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 6:37 am

Perhaps no-one here has tried one.  Wink 
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 8:03 am

Hi Bikerboy,

I did some research on Gates belts, called them on the phone a few years ago. The feeling I got from talking with them is there is just not enough of a market to produce a belt for the Honda Silverwing Scooter.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 8:12 am

The word "safety" only showed up once in these conversations-----Plus for OEM is that it will probably will not break in its recommended service life---Think sudden no power to rear wheel in critical situations-----getting run over//run down not fun. Stuff that has not been proven/tested in the SilverWing application could get you in trouble.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 8:35 am

MikeO wrote:
Perhaps no-one here has tried one.   Wink 

They have Boss, Old Limey posted earlier this month he'd fitted a couple of Gates belts to his Silver Wing. They must be cheaper than a OE belt as Old Limey being a Lancastrian will hate spending more money than he has to. Over that side of the Pennines they're all tighter than a goblins foreskin!  Wink 
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 9:48 am

Meldrew wrote:
a Lancastrian will hate spending more money than he has to. Wink 

Thus spake a man in Yorkshire!  Shocked Rolling Eyes
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 11:59 am

Must have missed it Meldrew as did bikerboy.  Smile 
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 12:09 pm

Colin B wrote:
Meldrew wrote:
a Lancastrian will hate spending more money than he has to. Wink 

Thus spake a man in Yorkshire!  Shocked Rolling Eyes

The man in Yorkshire you spake about is Cumbrian.  Rolling Eyes 
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Old Limey
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 12:39 pm

There is well know banter between Lancastrians and Yorkshire folk, all in good part, we both accuse the other of being Tight with money and many other things. Yes i admit, Iam careful with my pennies. I have used the Gates Belt at 16,000mls and again at 32,000mls and had no problems. The Honda belt was £140. The Gates was £68. I also fitted Iridium plugs at 8,000mls and am still getting over 60mpg at 38,000mls so they are doing thier job. All i would say is it's your bike my friend,if you want to fit something, go ahead and do it. The advice given on this site is just that, advice, take it or leave it, your choice.  Smile Wasn't Cumbria, before it was Cumbria, part of Lancashire Meldrew?
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 3:43 pm

Pokes head over fence,I got a Gates belt on mine as well  Smile part # 9802-41804,works fine & what Gates don't know about drive belts isn't worth knowing IMHO.

Out of curiosity does anyone actually know who supplies Honda with drive belts ?

Cumbria is an amalgam of,IIRC,Cumberland,Westmoorland & non attached bit of Lancashire
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 3:50 pm

MikeO wrote:
Must have missed it Meldrew as did bikerboy.  Smile 


Dont think bikerboy missed it Mike,he posted in the thread  Wink 

Have a quick look here bud .....


https://www.silverwing600.com/t6263-clutch-problem
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 4:00 pm

In answer to your question Sy Old Limey, when the county boundaries changed in 1971, the old counties of Cumberland, Westmorland, and parts of North Lancashire like Barrow-in-Furness became the new county of Cumbria.

Some old Lancashire traditions still exist today in Cumbria, in Barrow they give you the choice of a chopped or sliced pickled onion scattered over your pie, peas, and gravy.  Smile
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 4:28 pm

Thank you my man; that's the trouble when threads overlap so much.  Smile 
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 4:47 pm

No prob's bud,it was because of that thread & a comment by Old Limey I got one for mine  Cool 

Still riding,not been about much lately (loads of stuff going on since brother died) normal service should resume soon  Smile
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 6:33 pm

My spare OEM belt is made by Mitsubobshi. I don't know if there is another manufacturer or not as well (Honda and most other Japanese manufacturers like to have two sources for most outside parts).
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JeffR_
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 6:55 pm

I also used the Misubishi belt as jmaslak has and it did just fine. But I did read posts where 2 others used it and it shredded on them. So I went to the OEM belt after that.
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jmaslak
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 21, 2014 7:07 pm

The Mitsuboshi belt *is* a Honda OEM belt (it's not the same name as the car maker - Mitsuboshi is a belt maker as their primary business I believe). I don't know if they make one not sold by Honda as OEM or not.
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MikeO
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 2:21 am

Mitsuboshi supplied belt to Piaggio too so were their OEM belts. :-)
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lalee
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 2:58 am

I hope the Dr. finds something here on the forum to keep him coming back.
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Colin B
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 3:02 am

If he cares to look, I'm sure he shall.
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 4:08 am

Afterthought .... If anyone fits a Gates belt,it does not have a direction of rotation arrow,it is fitted correctly when you can read the writing Wink
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ericclapham
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
ericclapham

Number of posts : 106
Age : 78
Location : Adelaide,Sth.Australia
Points : 2879
Registration date : 2014-01-30

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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 8:28 am

Bern, I have a Gates belt for my Swing which I intend to fit very soon.Would you like to elaborate.Do you mean it is fitted for the correct direction of rotation when you can read the numbers and the "Gates"name-correct way up- when you are facing the variator/clutch assys from the left ?
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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 10:31 am

Yes Eric that's exactly it bud,as you stand/kneel there fitting it you should be able to read the writing Smile
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3829
Age : 78
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 8873
Registration date : 2009-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 12:07 pm

confused But, but... What happens if the writing is on the bottom side of the belt when I'm trying to put it on? Do I have to lay down to read it? Rolling Eyes
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Old Limey
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
Old Limey

Number of posts : 920
Age : 76
Location : BOLTON LANCASHIRE ENGLAND
Points : 5089
Registration date : 2010-06-09

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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 12:23 pm

I didn't bother where the writing on the belt was, i just put it on. Sometimes in the UK we seem to able to get certain things that other countries don't and visa - versa. Out of interest perphaps to Fellow UK members, when my Headlight bulb went (H7). M&P and Busters wanted £10.90p. for one bulb. I got two bulbs for £2. 60p. Later the Pound shop had two bulbs for £1. The sidelight bulbs (12v 5w capless) were £1.25p each from M&P i got 10 for £1.60p.  Smile 
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model28a
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
model28a

Number of posts : 2089
Age : 68
Location : St.Pete.FL.
Points : 6358
Registration date : 2010-02-03

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PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 6:07 pm

I'm going from memory and my memory is not the best. But I seem to remember someone got ahold of Gates and were told that it didn't matter which way you put their belt on when new. If you have to remove the belt and are putting the used belt back on then you need to put it back on the same way you took it off. Just passing along second hand information, I have never put a used belt back on. When bigbird put the Dr Pulley sliders on my scooter I only had 10,000 miles on my belt but we went ahead and put a new belt on. I kept it for a spare but I doubt I will ever use it. I try to keep things like brake pads, muffler gasket and belt on hand, and I try to buy tires in advance so I don't have to wait for parts with my scooter broke down. I guess now I have a backup Silverwing I don't need to keep spare parts around.  cheers
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ericclapham
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
ericclapham

Number of posts : 106
Age : 78
Location : Adelaide,Sth.Australia
Points : 2879
Registration date : 2014-01-30

Drive Belts Empty
PostSubject: Re: Drive Belts   Drive Belts I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 22, 2014 7:59 pm

Thanks fellas.
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