Electrical issues and Service Manuals

Hi again SW group.

A very disappointing event occurred with my SW two weeks ago. I meet my family for dinner after work (I was in the bike and they drove the car) and when we were leaving the bike was dead. To be precise, lights would come up but starter wouldn’t turn.

Checked battery (good), fuses (good), we jumped to the car’s battery just in case (no cranking), stands up and down (nothing), brake levers in and out (nothing).  So since we were not too far from a warehouse I rent, my 10 year old and I pushed the bike to leave it there until I could get to it for repairs. Well, it was a good 1/2 hour of pushing, nice for exercise and son-father bonding but not a fun thing to do.

So just to get it out of my system I will rant first: I never thought that I would find myself stranded when I invested in a Honda scooter, very disappointing. After 30 years of bike riding first time I get stuck. Well, there, I did it. Now I can move forward

So these are the details: battery seems OK, FI red light and fuel pump wouldn’t momentarily come on when ignition key was turned on (it’s off), no cranking, headlights turn off when you hit the starter switch but I think this is normal.

Now for the interesting part. I go see the bike at the warehouse a week later and bike won’t crank. I try the usual stuff, cycle the brake levers, stand up and down, nothing. But then I hit the horn, guess what, horn beeped and then the bike started and ran normally.

My theory, when I hit the horn I could feel the bike vibrate and that maybe made a relay get unstuck (my first guess) or a bad contact started to make contact (not sure about this). This vibration maybe allowed the relay to close and got things to work again. I know, kind of crazy what else could it be? Horn – cranking, how could those be related.

Anyway, I am going to check or replace relays because now the issue is not repeatable so I got to just take things out and replace or clean (contacts).

So my next question to the group is about service manuals. I obviously need the electrical schematic (which is impossible to get a copy of in the net [it would be nice to get the issue fixed a little sooner]). What is with all the different manuals? I have a SW 2005 (3K miles). I see 3 different manuals that cover this bike (61MCT04, 05, 08). I have seen a number of those manuals at eBay for a relatively steep price but wonder if there are any differences? Some seem to say FSC600 some FSC600/A (I need to find out what the difference is).

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks,

Chris

Chris,

I have a Service manual that I purchased new about a year ago from Helm (the offical Honda Manual Publisher). My Manual is for 2002 - 2012 FSC600/A Silverwing. The Issue date is October 2007. It came with stickers to update it to 2002-2012 models, so It hasn't chaged it a few years. I believe the "A" designation is for anti-lock brakes models.
The part number on the back of my manual is 61MCT10. The 10 at the end I believe is for the year, which I think was the year printed on the front of the manual but is now covered up with the Sticker for years 2002-2012. This is the sticker that came with the manual.
Hope this helps

Thanks Rich. That clarifies that. Do you know whether that FSC600/A manual also covers the non ABS model? It seems most manuals at ebay are the /A kind.

I will also check at Helm to make sure whether the price difference make sit worth it to get the new one.

Chris

Chris,if you can read German then there is a downloadable Shop Manual here .... http://www.manualedereparatie.info/en/download/honda-fjs-600-silver-wing-Service-manual.html

Thanks for the link! Rest assured it will be useful until I get my manual (at least I can start studying it now) but darn is German un-decipherable . Well, its better than Korean.

This afternoon I hope to go and rescue the bike. It's still in the warehouse. It runs now but I hope it gets home.

I really miss it. I use it daily to go to work (no parking here) so hopefully I can figure out what is wrong soon.

I will report on the findings for the benefit of others.

Chris

Not that it factors into the horn operating, but I'd sure check that side stand switch first.

Makes sense but I think what is a nice clue to discover the real perp is that when I have the problem, the red FI light and fuel pump will not come on momentarily when I turn the ignition switch on. I remember than when things are normal, the fuel pump can be heard and red FI light turns on for a few seconds right after the key is turned on. I think this will happen even if the stand is down but not sure of that.

If I can discover what can cause those two things not to happen I will have the answer as to what is wrong with the bike. Again, since this is an intermittent issue, it is hard to trace in the bike itself.

Chris

Did you have a "double click" when you applied the brake lever to start it? Others have had the problem of not pulling the brake lever far enough in prior to starting. I would spray contact cleaner and really work the connections. Sounds like something was stuck.

n7188u wrote:

Thanks Rich. That clarifies that. Do you know whether that FSC600/A manual also covers the non ABS model? It seems most manuals at ebay are the /A kind.

I will also check at Helm to make sure whether the price difference make sit worth it to get the new one.

Chris

Yes, It covers both ABS and Non ABS Models

Thanks Rich for the info on the manual.

Well, I think I know what is going on. I went this afternoon to pick the bike up at the warehouse and it is running fine after the horn beeping solution. It ran great all the way home.

Once there I started experimenting a little more and found that if the red stop switch is off, the red FI light and the fuel pump will not run when the ignition is turned on. So I started to wiggle the switch in the On position and noticed that the FI light and the fuel pump would turn on and off. SO it seems there is a bad contact on the stop switch or its related circuitry.

Tomorrow I will disassemble and try to clean if it is not a sealed type switch (which I guess it should be). Probably just order a new one to make sure.

So I will report back. Of course it is hard to know if that was the only issue since it is running fine now but I think it is. In any case, it will give me time to get the manual. At least I know that the stop switch does create the symptoms I was seeing. That's a big thing in troubleshooting the issue.

Thanks to all for the help.
Chris

Dont use the STOP/KILL switch!

Sometimes "helpful people" see a parked bike and hit the kill switch for the owner.  

I didn't!!!  It seems that its going bad and its making intermittent contact. It's been raining a lot here and I guess that water got in there (sits under a tree when I take it to work).

And believe me, I flipped all the switches when I got stranded.

Chris

n7188u wrote:

Tomorrow I will disassemble and  try to clean if it is not a sealed type switch (which I guess it should be). Probably just order a new one to make sure.

You shouldn't need to take the switch apart. Just spray WD40 or something similar over the switch, then work it off and on a few times. That should clean any dirt off the contacts. Worked for me, and it's on my list of 'regular, easy maintenance' jobs! (Don't forget to clean off the excess.)

Graham

n7188u wrote:

Hi again SW group.

A very disappointing event occurred with my SW two weeks ago. I meet my family for dinner after work (I was in the bike and they drove the car) and when we were leaving the bike was dead. To be precise, lights would come up but starter wouldn’t turn.

Any feedback would be appreciated. Thanks,

Chris

It seems that many electrical problems are related to the starting of the scooter. I nearly went blind trying to follow the Honda electrical schematic so I traced out just the starter circuit for the Swing. Here is a schematic that I created of the components in the starter circuit. The bank angle sensor shuts off the engine if the bike falls on it's side (accident).

The schematic may help you if you encounter that problem again.



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