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 Recommended slider weight for two up riding

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yammer
Scooter Rider
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yammer

Number of posts : 96
Age : 60
Location : Malta
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PostSubject: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 7:33 am

I have been trying to figure out what the best weight of slider choice would be and it does seem that there are a lot of different opinions from reading posts on the subject. I am assuming I still have the standard factory setup. So if I understand correctly and please do correct me if I'm wrong, the factory sliders are 28 grams the popular choice is switching to 26 grams, although some go down to even 22 grams. If lighter sliders engage later with higher RPMs so how can a lower drive ratio be claimed to give better fuel economy? My second question and more to the title subject is what would be the best slider weight for two up riding, with speeds not usually exceeding 50-60mph. As has been observed, as it is, my 2002 Silver Wing gives low MPG, worst than my carbed Yamaha XJR1300:shock:, so I do want the best of both worlds better acceleration and MPG with a combined weight (my wife and I) of  around 150 kg or 330 lbs.
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micbusathens
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 9:15 am

Well.....Dr pulleys even at the same weight with oems...behave different.Faster take offs and lower rpms for higher speeds.I have 28s of dr pulley but I'm thinking to go back to oems due to the exesive wear of the clutch pads.With oems regularly they needed replace after ...lets say 20 to 25 Kmiles.Now they reached to the end at 17 Kmiles.Of course for city use.Now..If you're intrested for commuting 26s are a good choise
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Silverwing28681
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 3:01 pm

How would changing from rollers to sliders have " excessive wear of the clutch pads " ? 

They would not change the way the clutches kick in,  Just asking,

I installed 28g Dr pulleys sliders, Very, Very smooth take off and lower RPMs at higher speeds,  I ride two up all the time,  So far I love them !
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micbusathens
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micbusathens

Number of posts : 199
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Location : Athens Greece
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Registration date : 2012-04-05

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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 4:10 pm

The hole centrifigual works with higher rpms than with the OEM rollers at take offs.So ...pads are engaging with the drum with higher revolution speed resulting this excess of wear and in my case is obvious(city use )
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rjdoles
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PostSubject: Variator sliders   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 8:44 pm

Not sure if you have seen the variator disassembled. This picture is a demo of variator with a roller and slider.

Recommended slider weight for two up riding Variator_zps879e8395

The OEM rollers are like a round hollow plastic coated brass bushings. The DR Pulley sliders are also plastic coated. They have a sort of tear drop shape with an angled flat machined on the top and a smaller flat on the side. 

The machined height of the angled face of the slider allows the pulley halves to be a little farther apart than with the standard OEM roller on the slow speed end of the variator range. This gives you a little bit lower starting gear ratio and a little bit better acceleration from a standing start. 

Once you reach cruising speed, centrifugal force causes the slider or roller to move out to the edge of the variator pushing the front pulley halves together. This is what changes the variator gear ratio. The small flat on the side of the slider allows it to be able to move a little farther down in it's track than the OEM roller. This gives you a little taller top gear than the OEM rollers. 

The shape of the Dr. Pulley sliders give your variator a little lower low gear and a little higher high gear. 

I have 28 gram sliders. If I accelerate gently, the rpm's build to about 4000 rpm at about 30 mph. The rpm holds there at 4000 rpm and the speed increases until I get to about 50 mph. The variator seems to be in top gear at about 50 - 55 mph. 

If I accelerate hard, the rpm builds until I get to about 5000 rpm and holds near there as the variator shifts from low gear to high gear. The rpm remains at about 5000 rpm until I get to about 65 mph and then the rpm starts going up again. 

Level freeway cruising at 5000 rpm, my speed was 70 mph. With the OEM rollers, at 5000 rpm, my speed was 62 mph.  

The slider or roller weight determines the rpm range when the variator begins to move from low gear to high gear.  Choosing lighter sliders delays the variator shifting until you reach a higher rpm. The lighter the weight, the higher the rpm before it begins to shift. Once you are in the 50 - 60 mph range, the rpm will be the same or lower than it was with the OEM rollers. 

Below 50 - 60 mph your engine will always be turning faster. For some people, this is annoying. It is like driving a standard shift car around in a lower gear.

With my 28 gram sliders, cruising around at any speed in the 30 to 50 mph range the engine is turning around 4000 rpm. 

Hope this helps.


Last edited by rjdoles on Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:02 pm; edited 4 times in total
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yammer
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yammer

Number of posts : 96
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Location : Malta
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeSat Jun 15, 2013 11:17 pm

Thanks everyone for your input. I was almost set at choosing the 26 gram sliders until I read rjdoles informative post. Now I think that 28 gram sliders may be better suited for my needs. Malta is only around 120 square miles so we don't have highways here and the legal maximum speed limit is 80km, RPMs rarely exceed 4000 so I am assuming that for better MPGs I would stick to 28 grams.
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Chaos
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Location : South Hadley Massachusetts USA
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 25, 2013 10:17 pm

I installed the 24  gram dr pully sliders in my 03 fsc600d honda silverwing and love it that way. I no longer hear the weights vibrate and take off is more controlable. my top speed was not effected much if at all. I am tempted to go even lighter with 22 gram sliders next time. Dr pully messaged me and said that anything lighter  than their 22gram sliders and I would risk tripping the rev limiter.
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bobcat20
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PostSubject: 24 gram sliders   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 7:49 am

I initially tried 26 gram sliders but didnt feel they did enough so I dremeled then out to reduce to 24 grams and am pretty happy with that
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 10:27 am

Not wanting to hijack the thread but:


bobcat20 wrote:
I initially tried 26 gram sliders but didnt feel they did enough so I dremeled then out to reduce to 24 grams and am pretty happy with that

Hmmm...Dremeling the inserts to reduce slider weight? Can you explain a little more?

Maybe as a new post. Maybe with photos if possible. This has gotta be useful info.

Tim
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toolboxjesse
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toolboxjesse

Number of posts : 330
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 12:35 pm

Demeling refers to drilling out using a dremel tool. You would also need a sensitive scale that would read in decimals of grams, perhaps a postal meter. by removing a little bit of the brass insert at a time you could turn a 26 gram into a 24.

Jesse in Atlanta.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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Cosmic_Jumper

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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeThu Jun 27, 2013 9:52 pm

toolboxjesse wrote:
Demeling refers to drilling out using a dremel tool. You would also need a sensitive scale that would read in decimals of grams, perhaps a postal meter. by removing a little bit of the brass insert at a time you could turn a 26 gram into a 24.
Jesse in Atlanta.

I was just wondering if there was some actual plan to doing this. Or was it just a matter of randomly grinding away at some part of the brass weight, like a mad dentist, until the desired weight was achieved?
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drewsieboy
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28, 2013 6:52 am

RE dremelling a slider weight, years ago when i was a fireman we had a bloke who in a long winded tale told us how he had drilled a ballbearing. After a suitable pause, one of the old hands nonchalantly said, i would like to buy your Fxxxxng drill.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28, 2013 7:14 am

I've rode with my wife at home and over in Germany at speeds up to 90 mph on the standard Silver Wing set up for hours on end with full touring kit. We had no problems overtaking lines of slower trucks, no problems on sweeping country roads, and no problems in city traffic in York which is 107 square miles. You're wasting your money. Smile
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toolboxjesse
Touring Scooter Rider
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toolboxjesse

Number of posts : 330
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28, 2013 7:25 am

Meldrew wrote:
You're wasting your money. Smile

As someone with 26gr sliders i would have to disagree- it changes the dynamics of the bike in a big way- not at high speed but at takeoff and acceleration and it drops the RPMs nicely at highway speed.

Jesse
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Meldrew
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Meldrew

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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28, 2013 7:57 am

toolboxjesse wrote:
As someone with 26gr sliders i would have to disagree- it changes the dynamics of the bike in a big way- not at high speed but at takeoff and acceleration and it drops the RPMs nicely at highway speed.

Jesse

...and is that riding solo, or with a passenger and the under seat storage, tunnel bag, top box and panniers fully loaded? Because that's what I'm on about, and if I'm feeling in a juvenile mood it's also easy to leave any car behind when the traffic lights go green.
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toolboxjesse
Touring Scooter Rider
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toolboxjesse

Number of posts : 330
Age : 48
Location : Atlanta, GA
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PostSubject: Re: Recommended slider weight for two up riding   Recommended slider weight for two up riding I_icon_minitimeFri Jun 28, 2013 8:55 am

I used to weigh almost 18 stone in full riding gear, so some might consider that as much as 2 normally-sized people:) . I took several long distance drives with the trunk, top box, panniers, and backpack fully loaded with a week's worth of clothes, riding gear, tools, gas can etc. so I would say yes.Smile
BTW I'm down to 12 stone now.
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