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 Question about speedo

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dspevack
tinman
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Day Trippin
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Question about speedo Empty
PostSubject: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeTue May 21, 2013 4:55 pm

I am looking at a used 600 Silverwing (non-ABS) that seems to be in good condition with one small issue (at least I hope it is small). The speedo just stopped working it seems. It has about 5,000 miles on it and is a 2009.

The current owner isn’t very mechanically inclined and doesn't know why it quit. Any ideas what might be the issue? I highly doubt it is the gauge so I was thinking maybe the speedo pickup? Where is the speedo pickup located assuming.

I’ve had similar problemw with other scooters and motorcycles when there was an issue with the electronic pickup for the speedo. I assume the Silverwing has an electronic speedo and not mechanical. Speaking of which, I was looking at another used one and the speed was off about 10%. From reading here that seems to be normal. Has anyone used a speedohealer (assuming electronic) for the Silverwing? Where does it connect to on the bike? Under the tupperware and somewhere buried or easy to get to?
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeTue May 21, 2013 6:00 pm

Speed sensors are mounted near both wheels close to the speedo rings,check for broken wires or connection.
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Day Trippin
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeTue May 21, 2013 6:09 pm

Thanks for the prompt reply. I'll take a look maybe later tonight. It seems like your answer might be for a bike with ABS but I'll look anyway on it.
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeTue May 21, 2013 7:26 pm

Usually speedo and odometer functions are intertwined.
Are you sure the speedo went out recently, and not in 2009 after the first 5000 miles to maybe insure that he didn't ride it past the mileage warranty?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeTue May 21, 2013 11:52 pm

I'd check the VSS sensor at the rear wheel (behind the belt case). Check to see that the wire isn't broken or has been pinched in the (metal) belt case.

IIRC there is a test in the Service Manual for that circuit, but my manual isn't at hand right now.

How long did the previous owner use the scoot after the speedo stopped? I think that the VSS also feeds the ECM for the fuel injection system. And if that is the case then that faulty VSS circuit should be causing some performance issues.

FWIW it's kind of doubtful that the meter panel is at fault, but it's always a possibility...an expensive possibility.

Please let us know what you find out about the problem.

Assuming that you were going to do your own service work I'd knock a good $500-$600 off his asking price with the assumption that the meter panel need replacing.

Tim
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1Wingman1
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 12:19 am

On the VSS there is a 12v wire, a ground, and the signal wire(pink/green I believe) which goes thru a connector behind or just above the left passenger peg to the ECU.

Put bike on centerstand, ignition on, and stick a sharp probe thru the insulation on the pink/green and the other probe on frame ground. Turn the rear wheel slowly and the meter should go up & down in voltage.

A Speed-O-Healer can be connected near the plug behind the left peg. You have to cut the signal wire to VSS, splice onto both new ends, and connect two more wires to 12v and ground. Mine required 8% correction and it slowed the odometer 8%.

VSS is on the rear of the final drive near the wheel. The VSS is the three wire set that passes thru the belt case. VSS=Vehicle Speed Sensor
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dspevack
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 8:54 am

1Wingman1 wrote:
A Speed-O-Healer can be connected near the plug behind the left peg. Mine required 8% correction and it slowed the odometer 8%.

This is a very important statement to consider.

Most people find their speedo off while their odometer is dead on.
Fixing the speedometer "breaks" the odometer, in that the odo becomes inaccurate.

We all have a decision to make as to which we want to be accurate.
Speedo or odo.

In almost 10 years in the Silverwing community I have never seen anyone solve one problem without causing the other.

Dan
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 10:20 am

Well the original poster could have the best of both worlds by just using a GPS as a speedo. Then with the OEM speedo/odo not working the scoot would never get old.

"It worked for me" --Peter Pan

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Day Trippin
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 11:31 am

Thanks for all the feedback. I ended up buying another one. On the one with the speedometer issue I did verify that the mileage was most likely accurate based on the dealer service records.

FYI - it seemed to run like the other ones I test rode and like the one I bought. So I wonder what affect the VSS may or many not have on the fuel injection system. Out of curiosity, does anyone know for sure?

I spoke with the makers of the speedohealer and apparently I can use the one from a bike I sold (but with a new harness) on the Silverwing. I need a more accurate speedo. I'll check the odometer against the mile markers and see how close it is. There is no reason for the speedo to be off this much.

I don't mind it being slightly optimistic but this is way too much. A GPS would be helpful but I may not always have it on the bike and the refresh rates of most GPS units are too slow to keep up with anything other than leisurely acceleration.

Now I just need to find a good place for accessories and parts to correct the inherent design issues I see with the bike such as crappy windscreen, terrible shocks and forks and a few other things.
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1Wingman1
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Question about speedo Empty
PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 2:03 pm

The ABS model takes a universal cable which has loose wires and no large connector. You can just cut the big connector off your old cable and use it. Saves $ 40.00. I wish they had told me about that.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 2:53 pm

Day Trippin wrote:
Thanks for all the feedback. [EDIT]
Now I just need to find a good place for accessories and parts to correct the inherent design issues I see with the bike such as crappy windscreen, terrible shocks and forks and a few other things.

There are any number of aftermarket windscreens available, Clearview & Givi to name two, as well as a Laminar Lip extension for the OEM windscreen.

Regarding suspension improvements, HyperPro is the way to go for the front end. You could also increase the spring spacers in the front end by 10mm (use PVC pipe) for better handling. And check the archives here for the definitive source(s) for aftermarket rear shocks.

Now the controversial solution to your speedo accuracy issue would be to switch to a darkside rear tire. The Sumitomo tire is slightly larger diameter than the OEM tires resulting in your speedo being dead on and the odo being off by ~5%. An added bonus, beside getting 40,000 miles out of that tire, is that because the larger diameter rear tire alters the final drive ratio you'll have lower RPMs per MPH and improved fuel economy.

Tim
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jmaslak
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Question about speedo Empty
PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 9:14 pm

I checked my 2012 speedometer with a GPS. It is dead on accurate with the stock tire.

The 2007 seemed to be a bit optimistic, but maybe 2-3%.
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Day Trippin
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Question about speedo Empty
PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeWed May 22, 2013 11:59 pm

I checked my 2009 and it is close to 9% optimistic. Way too far off to be useful. Then again I could maybe use a slightly taller rear tire when I have to replace it if there is an option. That would be a lot though to compensate for and would also kill the acceleration a bit...
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tarmacburner2
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Question about speedo Empty
PostSubject: Re: Question about speedo   Question about speedo I_icon_minitimeThu May 23, 2013 6:56 am

Day Trippin wrote:
I checked my 2009 and it is close to 9% optimistic. Way too far off to be useful. Then again I could maybe use a slightly taller rear tire when I have to replace it if there is an option. That would be a lot though to compensate for and would also kill the acceleration a bit...

If you work on a 10% error then it is much easier to calculate in your head actual speeds. So indicated 50 equates to 45 actual and so forth.

I use a bicycle computer and that is calibrated, reads the same as my GPS - also can be set to kilometres per hour for continental touring. Trying to divide by five and then multiply by eight whilst watching all the idiots on the road is impossible for my little brain!

Cheers,
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