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 Intermittent starting problem

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rjdoles
tinman
Colin B
Hants_Swing
8 posters
AuthorMessage
Hants_Swing
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 12
Age : 55
Location : Alresford, Hampshire, UK
Points : 3044
Registration date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 4:13 am

Hi all. I had my bike serviced a few weeks ago. Since then I've had a problem where I've stopped, either at a destination or for fuel, and the bike won't start.

Normally when you turn the ignition key you get a brief whining noise; I'm not sure if this is the fuel pump, the ECU, or some other electrical device. The symptom for my not starting problem is that I don't hear the noise. Everything else comes on correctly: the gauges do the self test thing and all the lights and accessories work, but when you pull the brake and hit the start button, nothing happens.

The first time it happened was at a fuel station. I called the RAC and between us we traced all the starting interlocks (rear brake, kill switch, kick stand) and they seemed to be fine. I got the RAC to take the bike back to a friend's workshop, where the act of checking the fuse boxes seemed to clear the problem...

The second time was this week and the bike is now stuck in the garage at my office which (long story) is 100 miles from home. No amount of fuse box checking has cleared the problem.

So any ideas? Does anyone have a wiring diagram that I could use to check out the ignition circuitry? And finally, does anyone know a mechanic in the Stevenage, Biggleswade area that they would trust to come and take a look?

Thanks for your help!
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Colin B
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
Colin B

Number of posts : 586
Age : 69
Location : Windsor, UK
Points : 3701
Registration date : 2013-03-20

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 4:47 am

You are squeezing the brake lever VERY hard, aren't you? I fell foul of this little Honda trick (with much embarrassment) when I collected my new Swing a few weeks ago.

Listen for the second micro-switch to click.

Apologies if I'm teaching you to suck eggs, but best to start with the simplest test first.
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Hants_Swing
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 12
Age : 55
Location : Alresford, Hampshire, UK
Points : 3044
Registration date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 4:51 am

Yes! After the first time it happened I visited this forum and saw all the comments. It's definitely working - we checked that the switch is making properly and the amps are getting through. I agree that simple is good - it's usually the obvious that gets overlooked... Thanks.
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tinman
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts : 1299
Age : 73
Location : Matheson, Ontario, Canada
Points : 4920
Registration date : 2011-11-29

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 7:38 am

Check your side stand switch,Swing wont start with side stand engage or switch might be defected .If you don't hear the fuel pump it can also be the kill switch not making contact ,corrosion can cause these switch to malfunction .Try some contact cleaner.
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Hants_Swing
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 12
Age : 55
Location : Alresford, Hampshire, UK
Points : 3044
Registration date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 8:06 am

Thanks tinman - much appreciated.
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rjdoles
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
rjdoles

Number of posts : 139
Age : 73
Location : Columbus, Ohio
Points : 3415
Registration date : 2012-09-24

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 9:31 am

I found this schematic on the Internet. I believe that the descriptions are in German but a schematic is a schematic.

Moderator removed photo of Honda's copyrighted schematic

I hope that it us useful.
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Hants_Swing
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 12
Age : 55
Location : Alresford, Hampshire, UK
Points : 3044
Registration date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 9:34 am

Excellent! Many thanks.
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Old Limey
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
Old Limey

Number of posts : 920
Age : 76
Location : BOLTON LANCASHIRE ENGLAND
Points : 5084
Registration date : 2010-06-09

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 19, 2013 12:28 pm

You don't use Handlebar muffs do you?? I found the same kind of thing happened once or twice if i overtightened mine. Smile
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Hants_Swing
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 12
Age : 55
Location : Alresford, Hampshire, UK
Points : 3044
Registration date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 20, 2013 12:40 pm

No I don't have bar muffs (although I have thought about them a lot over the winter...). Thanks
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clivewalsh
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 18
Location : Herts, UK
Points : 3171
Registration date : 2012-12-13

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 24, 2013 3:01 pm

Sorry to hear you are having such a confusing and disabling problem.

Not necessarily the same, but I did have a very similar issue with my previous Honda SH300i.

Problem eventually traced to large fuse UNDERNEATH the battery - missed on many previous searches and tests of all other fuses by me and many others!!

My afflictions were either at petrol stations or supermarkets until the cure was found (re-seating the dratted thing was all that was needed).

Good luck and wishing you an early cure. Do let us know the outcome.

Regards

Clive from Hertfordshire
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Hants_Swing
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 12
Age : 55
Location : Alresford, Hampshire, UK
Points : 3044
Registration date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2013 9:47 am

Hi everyone - I thought I'd let you know how this worked out.

A friend and I stripped the fairing off the bike so we could see and get to all of the electrics. We found a couple of loose wires and replaced a couple of connectors. But, still no joy.

So we worked through the ignition circuit and all the breakpoints, testing all the switches, relays etc as we went. Eventually, repeated switching of the kill switch led to the bike making all the normal noises when you switch it on. So we stripped the kill switch (pulled it apart completely) to find it was filthy and full of grease from the throttle cable.

5 minutes of gentle cleaning and de-greasing and things were back to normal...

It took a couple of hours to get there, but we know it's fixed now, and we learnt a lot about stripping the bike down and putting it back together as well.

I then blasted the 100 miles home in record time Smile
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tarmacburner2
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
tarmacburner2

Number of posts : 1101
Age : 67
Location : Cleveleys, Lancashire, England
Points : 5327
Registration date : 2010-03-27

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2013 10:34 am

Good work, and a ride into the bargain.

Cheers,
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tinman
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts : 1299
Age : 73
Location : Matheson, Ontario, Canada
Points : 4920
Registration date : 2011-11-29

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2013 10:52 am

applause cheers
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Hants_Swing
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 12
Age : 55
Location : Alresford, Hampshire, UK
Points : 3044
Registration date : 2013-04-17

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2013 11:05 am

And of course tinman you were right on the money with the kill switch!
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RArch
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
RArch

Number of posts : 613
Age : 54
Location : West London, UK
Points : 4203
Registration date : 2011-11-07

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PostSubject: Re: Intermittent starting problem   Intermittent starting problem I_icon_minitimeThu May 02, 2013 11:54 am

Thanks very much for letting us know, I'm sure the info will help someone else again.
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