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 Dead battery ???

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dspevack
jmaslak
NWSSC
JeffR_
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JeffR_
Site Admin
JeffR_


Number of posts : 1103
Age : 62
Location : Bay Area, Ca
Points : 8206
Registration date : 2010-05-12

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PostSubject: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 16, 2013 10:08 pm

Hi,

I went to start my SWing today, after many months of not riding, and the battery was totally dead. I just bought it last July, or around there, so I was surprised it was totally dead. It is nice weather here in California so I thought it would turn over very slowly at worst.

So hopefully it is just a dead battery and nothing else. I have a charger on it now. I did use the car battery to jump it, and the Swing started right up, but as soon as I took the cables off it died. And the light for the seat would go out right away. It seems there is no charge whatsoever.

Any ideas? Thanks.
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NWSSC
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
NWSSC


Number of posts : 418
Age : 84
Location : Mt Prospect IL 30 miles west of Chicago
Points : 4980
Registration date : 2010-03-03

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 16, 2013 10:47 pm

Hopefully after charging the battery for awhile and you can start your S/W and it will stay running. A battery usually has to have some voltage in it to trigger the alternator to charge.The older generators would charge a completely dead battery.In fact you take an old style generator off a car and if you can turn it fast enough it will produce voltage all by it's self.Good luck.
Howard
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jmaslak
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 252
Location : Golden, CO, USA
Points : 3941
Registration date : 2012-06-15

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 16, 2013 11:02 pm

The Silverwing is closer to a generator than alternator - there's no field windings or coils that turn. It's a 3-phase AC generator. The regulator is also a pretty dumb circuit on these - it dumps excess watts (that would cause the voltage of the bike to rise above the set-point) to heat (hense the cooling fins). But regardless, I too am hoping that OP gets his bike going soon!
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JeffR_
Site Admin
JeffR_


Number of posts : 1103
Age : 62
Location : Bay Area, Ca
Points : 8206
Registration date : 2010-05-12

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 16, 2013 11:16 pm

I was surprised by this. Before I replaced the battery last year I had to jump it a couple of times but it would keep running. This time though, and like I said I haven't started it in months, it would not keep running. I just hope I don't have to buy another battery or something worse happen. But it rain perfect the last time I rode it so I'm sure it is just the battery. I have no idea why I haven't rode it in so long but I am going to start riding it again. I keep you up to date on what happens. Thanks.
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NWSSC
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
NWSSC


Number of posts : 418
Age : 84
Location : Mt Prospect IL 30 miles west of Chicago
Points : 4980
Registration date : 2010-03-03

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 16, 2013 11:45 pm

I believe the S/W is not the only one to use this type of design.Like what has been said the excess watts are dumped to ground. If you have a problem with a ground you can burn out the alternator and the regulator at the same time.
A replacement regulator is available for the S/W and the other popular maxi
scooter to eliminate this concern. Howard

For more information check out this link

http://roadstercycle.com/Shindengen%20FH012AA%20Regulator%20upgrade%20kit.htm

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dspevack
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
dspevack


Number of posts : 2008
Age : 57
Location : Miami, FL
Points : 7342
Registration date : 2008-12-27

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2013 8:23 am

Shorai, Jeff. Shorai.
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DennisB
Silver Wing Guru
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Number of posts : 2777
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Location : NE Oklahoma
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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2013 8:35 am

Hi Jeff,

If your new battery is not holding a charge, take it back to where you purchased it and have them test it, if possible. Sounds like they just might owe you a replacement battery if it's found faulty.
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eddy
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 187
Age : 71
Location : Europe Flanders.
Points : 4810
Registration date : 2009-11-27

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2013 9:29 am

Jeff wrote...
"I did use the car battery to jump it, and the Swing started right up, but as soon as I took the cables off it died."

That's looking bad.
The charging system should take over the battery function from the moment the engine is running.

With the car battery and a Volt meter you can do a diagnose of the charging system.

Eddy
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JeffR_
Site Admin
JeffR_


Number of posts : 1103
Age : 62
Location : Bay Area, Ca
Points : 8206
Registration date : 2010-05-12

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2013 1:49 pm

Well I kept the charger on the battery all night and when I went out today to start it..it started right up. I know I haven't rode it in months but I was surprised that it was totally dead. Not even the light under the seat would come on. But I will take it for a ride today and get it on the highway and go for a nice ride.

I have never in all the years I have had the SWing ever not latched my seat securely, so maybe this is the only time it happened. I can't believe it would lose all of its charge just sitting that long. The batteries seem to sit on shelves that long and keep a charge. I will monitor it though and thanks for the replies.
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eddy
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 187
Age : 71
Location : Europe Flanders.
Points : 4810
Registration date : 2009-11-27

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 17, 2013 6:46 pm

Jeff,

With a full charged battery and a faulty charging system the engine will start and run.
But it will end soon, specially with the lights on.

I strongly advice to (let) measure the Voltage when engine is running.
It should be a few Volts more than the battery Voltage when engine is not running.

Do this before you go for a ride far from home.

Or you can let run the engine at home and watch the lights.
They should stay strong, even after 20 minutes.

Eddy
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Joe O
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 1
Age : 78
Location : Port Charlotte Fl/Portland ME
Points : 3456
Registration date : 2013-01-20

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PostSubject: Had the same problem used car charger but battery would not hold a charge for long even though I took it out., Car battery chargers are not recommended. Replaced the old battery with a new also purchased low voltage charger recommended by Battery Plus.    Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2013 4:32 pm

JeffR_ wrote:
Hi,

I went to start my SWing today, after many months of not riding, and the battery was totally dead. I just bought it last July, or around there, so I was surprised it was totally dead. It is nice weather here in California so I thought it would turn over very slowly at worst.

So hopefully it is just a dead battery and nothing else. I have a charger on it now. I did use the car battery to jump it, and the Swing started right up, but as soon as I took the cables off it died. And the light for the seat would go out right away. It seems there is no charge whatsoever.

Any ideas? Thanks.
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NWSSC
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
NWSSC


Number of posts : 418
Age : 84
Location : Mt Prospect IL 30 miles west of Chicago
Points : 4980
Registration date : 2010-03-03

Dead battery ??? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2013 5:14 pm

Not a uncommon problem when a battery is comlpently drained down.
Hopefully after charging the battery for awhile you can start your S/W and it will stay running. A battery usually has to have some voltage in it to trigger the alternator. Howard
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billc.
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
billc.


Number of posts : 189
Age : 73
Location : Atlanta, Ga.
Points : 4745
Registration date : 2010-02-19

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2013 5:22 pm

Sears has a Battery Tender Jr. on sale for $29.95 and I keep my S/W plugged in year round...so it is always ready to go and fully charged...other retailers may have a better price on the Battery Tender Jr., but with Sears its easy to get their warranty if it ever fails...billc.
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jmaslak
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 252
Location : Golden, CO, USA
Points : 3941
Registration date : 2012-06-15

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PostSubject: Re: Dead battery ???   Dead battery ??? I_icon_minitimeFri Mar 15, 2013 5:39 pm

NWSSC wrote:
A battery usually has to have some voltage in it to trigger the alternator.

One nice thing about our Hondas is that our stator doesn't have field coils like an alternator to generate a magnetic field. It uses permanent magnets instead. (nor does the regulator/rectifier need battery power to work)

So if the wing starts, you should be golden as far as charging the battery. If it won't stay charged, make sure your charging voltage isn't too high (too high = bad regulator) but instead where it should be. Assuming it is, then you have a battery that went bad (which can happen just sitting there, particularly if it was discharged for some reason). But it's best to check the charging voltage before replacing the battery, since a bad regulator can cook a battery and make it look like the charging system is producing too little power when it's actually the opposite.

I have found in a pinch it can be helpful to pull the headlight and taillight fuses to start the bike with a low battery (unlike some bikes, you CAN start the Silverwing with the taillight fuse pulled). Just put them back as soon as the bike starts running so you don't overheat the regulator (the worst thing you can do to the regulator on our bikes is to run LESS electrical load than stock; more electrical load is a lot less of a problem, at least up to a point, but less load will cause the regulator to get hotter and possibly burn up).
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