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KurtPerthWA
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chalky
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PostSubject: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 5:09 pm

hello all
can anyone give me any help on how to remove the oil drain plug cos its solid and stripped as round as a penny
followed the pictorial but never seen the posts on using the six point drain plug spanner, used a 12 point socket Embarassed
tried mole grips but there aint enough grip left on the plug for them to work
has anyone managed to remove it themselves rather than a dealer do it and how
how would a dealer remove it if its this rounded
any tips, info much appreciated
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 5:46 pm

Hi Chalky,

Sorry to be so blunt....Take the scooter to the dealer and have them remove the drain cap. Order a new one with new o-ring and please remember to always use 6 point sockets on this scooter. sunny
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chalky
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 6:03 pm

DennisB wrote:
Hi Chalky,

Sorry to be so blunt....Take the scooter to the dealer and have them remove the drain cap. Order a new one with new o-ring and please remember to always use 6 point sockets on this scooter. sunny


thats the easy option dennis but at between 60 to 70 pounds an hour to fix at dealers thats not an option at the moment
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RArch
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 6:19 pm

You could try filing a couple of flats for the mole grips to get a hold of.
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DennisB
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 6:57 pm

OK...Try heating the engin up by taking a nice long ride. Then take ice and place it on the cap (just to cool the cap down only) and then give it a try while the cap is cold. Do not burn your self in the hot metal under there.
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 6:59 pm

Chalkie,
My old standby has awlays been good ol' vise grip pliers, which is really a questionable practice what with the plug being aluminum. RArch's suggestion is always good too... probably better than mine (especially since I don't know what "mole grips" are... maybe the same??) Anyway, don't forget to try some judicious 'tapping' on the plug to try and jar the threads loose too. That can also be tried when trying to break it loose with whatever tool you wind up with.

Also, if you have the time and determination you could try filing 6 more flats on the plug and use the proper socket for that. And then there are the special ratchet sockets that come with pins installed in the inner diameter that are suppose to slide out of the way in order to 'fit' any size and shape of small part (ie, stripped). Don't know how well they work though.

I don't envy you with that problem. When I first had my SWing I was worried about all I had read about drain plug problems. Bought the special 6-sided socket and was ready to face the worst. Long story short, the damn thing almost fell out for me. Was no problem at all.

So... good luck to ya'. If you can't get any additional help, I can only see taking Dennis' suggestion, no matter how much it's going to cost.

Oh yeah... was just a little curious about your avatar... does it indicate your demeanor? If so, we'll have to make a special section for you, John G, and Meldrew Smile Exclamation

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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 7:50 pm

You could try to reshape the 6 side to fit a standard socket using a flat file. Once a socket fits tap the end of the power bar till it breaks loose.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 11:21 pm

chalky, welcome to the forum. You can probably take a chisel and tap counterclockwise on what is left of the plug. If that doesn't work the next thing I would try would be to take a drill and drill a hole the size of a big easy out, but that will be messy. If you drill the plug have a pan ready to catch the oil. I know I would keep at it until I got it out and not spend what a shop would charge. Remember it is already broken so you have nothing to lose. Oh and I would get a new plug first. Hope you get it yourself, goog luck.
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Octarine
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 04, 2012 11:39 pm

I would pick up a hand impact driver with the fattest flat driver head. File a groove into the head. Warm up the bike then use ice on the cap. Then use the impact driver. It should come off.

If not go with a 17-20mm screw extractor-drill a pilot hole and let the oil drain. If you can get the impact driver on it, all the better.


But first I would soak it with pb blaster, give it a couple good raps with a hammer then lock on vise grips with the upper jaw facing right as you look at it. A few good taps with the hammer on the top curved part of the pliers should knock it loose.
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 05, 2012 6:06 am

My last ditch method, used on a previous Sym scooter drain plug which the previous owner had well and truly 'graunched'.

Stielsons. Works every time. Failing that, chisel and hammer and tap in the direction of undoing the bolt.

Welcome by the way and good luck. Let us know what worked.
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 05, 2012 9:21 am

hi all

a big thanks to you all for your tips and help :not worthy:
managed to get it with the mole grips or vice grips to some
def needs a new plug and theres no strainer present
yes the avatar was evident in my demeanor but only while trying to remove the drain plug Razz
again a big thanks to everyone

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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Aug 05, 2012 9:13 pm

FWIW That drain plug is the same part that many earlier Honda's used in the cylinder head to access valve adjustments.

Perhaps there is a motorcycle salvage place near you where you could locate that item. Sure would save you a long wait ordering it from Honda.

Hey, if you are fortunate enough to locate a used one, why not pick up a spare --just in case.

Good luck

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 06, 2012 4:10 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
FWIW That drain plug is the same part that many earlier Honda's used in the cylinder head to access valve adjustments.

Perhaps there is a motorcycle salvage place near you where you could locate that item. Sure would save you a long wait ordering it from Honda.

Hey, if you are fortunate enough to locate a used one, why not pick up a spare --just in case.

Good luck

Tim

ordered new drain plug,washer and plug strainer this morn paid for them £20 and was told they would be in dealers tomorrow morn
now if they are in tomorrow morn i would say thats a great service from honda
heres hoping Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 06, 2012 6:06 pm

Hey chalky,

Did your scooter have the spring in the drain hole. It holds the oil stainer screen up in the engine.
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 3:10 pm

DennisB wrote:
Hey chalky,

Did your scooter have the spring in the drain hole. It holds the oil stainer screen up in the engine.

nope no strainer present, stuck my finger in as far as poss just to make sure but nothing there
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 4:00 pm

Hi chalky,

The strainer and the spring are two different parts and both need to be installed.
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 4:34 pm

If you want a new drain plug, Hein Gericke still might stock their magnetic drain plugs and they're made of an harder alloy. As they're now holding Closing Down Sales in their UK branches, you could pick up one or two cheaply.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 4:56 pm

Meldrew wrote:
If you want a new drain plug, Hein Gericke still might stock their magnetic drain plugs and they're made of an harder alloy. As they're now holding Closing Down Sales in their UK branches, you could pick up one or two cheaply.

Just been in to their Plymouth shop. Sad, (for them Sad ). I came out with an arm full of clobber Smile !!! Lots of bike bits left though - it seems to be clothing that is going out through the doors! 20% off everything!
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chalky
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 6:59 pm

Meldrew wrote:
If you want a new drain plug, Hein Gericke still might stock their magnetic drain plugs and they're made of an harder alloy. As they're now holding Closing Down Sales in their UK branches, you could pick up one or two cheaply.

had a look at their web site earlier, sad to see another bike related source goin into administration
dont seem to see the same amount of bikes on the road anymore where i live
seems like the whole bike scene and industry is in decline nowadays
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chalky
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 07, 2012 7:03 pm

DennisB wrote:
Hi chalky,

The strainer and the spring are two different parts and both need to be installed.

picked up all the new parts today,fit thurs or fri so its on the road for the weekend Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2013 6:44 pm

I really appreciate all the support here for such an amazing piece of engineering :

Same me. Bought a red 2003 Sw last nov 2012; cannot find anything to complain about really...until I tried to change oil - oil cap is stuck TIGHT!! Crying or Very sad
Oh crap....
Last oil change was 6.7.2011 at 16500 miles ... LOL ...only 1900 miles added since really. Very low miles.

I havn't quite 'rounded' or really damaged this alu. cap...yet Smile

AND, I really don't want to have to drill a hole, if I don't have to. I just ordered a new CAp, plus O ring, spring and cap-filter ... syn oil ready. I'm in no rush to change oil YET.

I will try the heat/ICE trick, hammer it , and mole-wrench it off.

My question is AFTER: will I need to re-thread it or just carefully test thread-on the NEW oil cap (thowing away the will-be-damaged cap) ?? Neutral

Thanks folks
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 08, 2013 11:31 pm

My drain plug stick's all the time I think it's the contact of the plug to the casting aluminum on aluminum I hold my 6 sided socket with one hand firmly and tap the ratchet with the other hand to brake it free .
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2013 3:24 pm

HAven't done it yet on the WIng but on a previous bike I used one of these to remove the damaged part. (Only after acquiring a replacement item first of course).

http://www.tooled-up.com/microcat/stilson-wrenches/1441/


It is aggressive but does work. The jaws bite into the cap and ensure the item unscrews.
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 09, 2013 6:16 pm

Stilsons, Mole Grips and 10" Adjustable Spanner should be included in the Honda Tool Kit. If they don't work then use a 'Manchester Screwdriver'!

Cheers,
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 12:27 am

A large Stilson pipe wrench is a good thing to try though I'd use a large vice grip first. I clean the plug and put a light wipe of aluminum anti-seize on the threads before replacing the plug which makes it come out a lot easier. I don't know why so many people reef down on the drain plugs when they install them. There's no rotating parts involved, just simple vibration and that rarely every loosens the plug. It really only needs to be snug not ape swinging tight. I'll second Waspie on the six point box end wrenches. I only use my 12 pointers for work where there's light torqued bolts and nuts and in close quarters. Never on aluminum and alloy if it can be avoided.
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Waspie
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 12:56 am

exavid wrote:
A large Stilson pipe wrench is a good thing to try though I'd use a large vice grip first. I clean the plug and put a light wipe of aluminum anti-seize on the threads before replacing the plug which makes it come out a lot easier. I don't know why so many people reef down on the drain plugs when they install them. There's no rotating parts involved, just simple vibration and that rarely every loosens the plug. It really only needs to be snug not ape swinging tight. I'll second Waspie on the six point box end wrenches. I only use my 12 pointers for work where there's light torqued bolts and nuts and in close quarters. Never on aluminum and alloy if it can be avoided.

Tinman not Me!!!!!!
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 1:10 am

Mea culpa!
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 8:37 am

If anyone bothers to read the oil change instructions on here it is made very clear to use ONLY a 6-point socket. This is stated over and over again. Do NOT use an adjustable wrench or a 12-point socket...

I did not own a 6-point but after reading the info on here I got one BEFORE my first oil change and have had NO problems with boogering up the drain plug.

Yes it would be nice if Honda would use a steel plug but they did not so we must deal with it.
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 8:59 am

Mines due for an oil change. I think I will replace the crappy plug with a proper steel plug with teflon tape or preferably ss plug.
Living it up and spending big.
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 12:45 pm

Be very careful using a steel plug. The main reason a lot of manufacturers use alloy plugs is the fact that steel threads into aluminum can gall and bind up. If worse comes to worst it's a lot easier to drill out an alloy plug.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 4:32 pm

I second the motion not to use a different type of drain plug. The drain plug seals on the 'o' ring and is not a tampered fit. As previously stated, Honda used a valve adjusting access cover from a different engine to use for the drain plug on the S/W.


Last edited by NWSSC on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Winger61
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 5:49 pm

tarmacburner2 wrote:
Stilsons, Mole Grips and 10" Adjustable Spanner should be included in the Honda Tool Kit. If they don't work then use a 'Manchester Screwdriver'!

Cheers,
I'm surprised you haven't been asked to explain that particular tool to our colonial cousins yet!! Laughing
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tarmacburner2
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 6:39 pm

Winger61 wrote:
tarmacburner2 wrote:
Stilsons, Mole Grips and 10" Adjustable Spanner should be included in the Honda Tool Kit. If they don't work then use a 'Manchester Screwdriver'!

Cheers,
I'm surprised you haven't been asked to explain that particular tool to our colonial cousins yet!! Laughing

I've been waiting for someone to ask what it is! I'm assuming people have been googling the expression.

Cheers,
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DarthJ
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 6:55 pm

I've heard of it referred as a 'Cotswolds Screwdriver" on Top Gear, due to it being the only tool Clarkson knows how to use.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 6:55 pm

OK i will bite,what is that thing a ma jij Smile
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DarthJ
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 6:57 pm

hammer
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surlybiker58
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 6:59 pm

I'd be afraid to let Clarkson work on anything ,no matter what the tool was
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 7:01 pm

Agreed, if you want it done right, Captain Slow is the one to do it.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 7:10 pm

Hammering the crap out of it is no way to treat the best scooter I ever own.Teflon pipe dope works good to seal and re lease the plug.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 7:45 pm

Other than a bit of aluminum anti-seize which is optional one doesn't need any sealant on the plug since that's the whole purpose of the sealing washer. Be sure to use a short wrench or choke up on the handle to prevent excessive tightening that's the usual cause of the mangled drain plug in the first place. These things done fall out on their own accord.
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KurtPerthWA
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KurtPerthWA

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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeSun Feb 10, 2013 9:56 pm

We too watch Clarkson and his cohorts delving into the best ways to destroy wontonly, I SAY WONTONLY, perfectly good British cars.

"Perfectly good British cars"

OOPS that's an Oxymoron.
Clarkson would use one of those to cut a car apart.




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tarmacburner2
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tarmacburner2

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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 11, 2013 5:21 am

Perfectly good British Cars -

Dinky, Corgi, Matchbox... the list is endless!

Cheers,
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KurtPerthWA
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KurtPerthWA

Number of posts : 1704
Age : 72
Location : Belmont, Perth WA
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 11, 2013 5:51 am

Naw! All made in Macua and China............. however, they can be melted down and machined into Jim Dandy sump plugs.
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Waspie
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Waspie

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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 11, 2013 6:08 am

AND what's wrong with a hammer? Laughing

NO tool box is complete without a good range of adjusting tools. Small medium and large hammers are a must for any half decent fettler!!!!!! Laughing
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RArch
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RArch

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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 11, 2013 8:41 am

Waspie wrote:
AND what's wrong with a hammer? Laughing

NO tool box is complete without a good range of adjusting tools. Small medium and large hammers are a must for any half decent fettler!!!!!! Laughing

Could add the rubber hammer to the list.
During peak season for the farm contractors, its either weld it on or cut off. None of this spannering, thats for the off season...

Smile
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Waspie
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Waspie

Number of posts : 2392
Age : 69
Location : Portland, UK
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 11, 2013 9:24 am

RArch wrote:
Waspie wrote:
AND what's wrong with a hammer? Laughing

NO tool box is complete without a good range of adjusting tools. Small medium and large hammers are a must for any half decent fettler!!!!!! Laughing

Could add the rubber hammer to the list.
During peak season for the farm contractors, its either weld it on or cut off. None of this spannering, thats for the off season...

Smile

Now your just getting technical. Laughing
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: drain plug disaster   drain plug disaster I_icon_minitimeMon Feb 11, 2013 12:37 pm

Be careful with those rubber hammers, some people have destroyed anvils with them.
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