Curious about the Silverwing engine

I am just curious about the Silverwing engine. It seems most impressive for it's size. Is it used in other Hondas as well? I saw the specs on it but am curious about others' thoughts on it.

Robin,

I don't think it is used on any other bike but I could be wrong. The scooter engines are a bit different physically than the motorcycle engines. It seems to be bullet proof and you would think they would use it on other bikes too. I'm curious what others will say here about the engine. Maybe someone else knows more about it.

The parallel twin engine is a perfect match for a CVT transmission because it hits its peak horse power and torque at fairly low rpms (5,000 rpms) and then pretty much has a flat torque curve up to it maximum rpms (~ 8,000 rpms). This supplies the transmission with a steady stream of power that is transferred to the wheel by the CVT. We have talked a little bit about how the CVT works before. The CVT has a variable diameter spool inside that changes diameter as the speed increases.

As you said, this engine is very durable - partly due to the fact that it is not a very high reving engine. If you look at torque curves for other bikes - notably 4 cylinder sport bikes - you will see that most of them hit maximum horse power and torque at pretty high rpms (9,000 to 12,000 rpms), and then fall off a bit. One exception is the Kawasaki Concourse 14. It's torque curve is a thing of beauty - it rapidly goes high and then stays straight across...

Considering that the other bikes all have gear boxes, I doubt that the Swing engine could be used in them. Any of the stationary (generator, pump, etc.) or watercraft, possibly.

RobinC wrote:

I am just curious about the Silverwing engine. It seems most impressive for it's size. Is it used in other Hondas as well? I saw the specs on it but am curious about others' thoughts on it.

Here are some honda 583cc engines. Even if not identical engines, I would expect Honda to share as many parts as possible.

XL600 V Transalp 83-99
DeauvilleNTV600 Revere 88-93
VT600 C Shadow VLX 88-89,91-00

They may be able to share some components, but how much is interchangeable depends on the geometry of the engine. Not all 600 cc engines are the same. Some are V-twins (2 cylinders), some are parallel twins (like the swing), and some are 4 cylinder V's. Each cylinder configuration has different characteristics when it comes to generating horse power and torque. Jon, I think you are correct. The parallel twin would be a good engine for those sort of applications. Maybe snow machines and ATVs as well...

As I recall, the S'wing engine was developed specifically for the S'wing to develp max torque lower down than most bike engines... though it may well have been developed from a pre-existing Honda engine... The torque is quite exceptional on the stock scoot, but even better with the J costa variator and a power commander.... It does have several refinements such as additional balancer shafts, and slipper cylinder liners (whatever that is?) as you get on the more racey sporty Honda bikes... It's only been around since 2001, but I reckon there will still be a lot of original S'wings around long after the scoot has been superseded by the mark two.... I can just imagine it with 17 inch wheels, reactive suspension, self regulating tyres, adjustable screen, a 900cc engine 95bhp engine, with 60% more torque, a DN-01 hydraulic drive train, final belt drive, and sequential turbocharger option.... sigh... we can dream....

I understand, though this was more gossip on the net rather than reading a bona fide report that the original engine mapping, and timing at low revs was tweaked by Honda on account of it being so powerful that the test riders were able to pull wheelies....! Though I think this may have been a bit of hearsay...

Wheelies... mmmmmm Yaaaaahhhh.....

Now you've got my interest.

What is the possibility of a supercharger or turbocharger? I believe there was a French (as in France) designer who did something like that with a concept model.

Further to this pipe dream, I saw an electric supercharger on Gizmag (?) that could easily be used in motorcycle applications. Yes, we can only dream . . . for now.

Captain

Ahhh.....The Turbo-Charger......

Here is a post that I first sent to the "other" Silver Wing forum.... (yes there is another one!)

The subject of fitting one has become a bit of an ongoing rapport / conversation between myself and Dave who owns the local bike shop where I got most of the mods done to my scoot.

http://www.davewoodracing.com/

His place specializes in souping up bikes, plus he builds and races his own machines. He has a penchant for souping up anything on two wheels with an engine and has his own Dyno rig in his workshop. He bored out and tweaked a 180cc scooter, so it can do 100mph, and he tells me that from a standing start it will initailly anyway, outperform my S'wing... Anyway I digress..... Recently I was joking to him about how I could get even more performance from the S'wing, suggesting a bit tongue in cheek, nitrous..... He, replied that although that would be fun, the best way to get a bit more power would be by fitting wider bore down pipes, adjusting the airbox and filter, and doing something to the cylinder head, and perhaps also boring out the cylinders.... But he said that the best option would be a turbo charger, espcially as my Swing already has power commander which he would use to also optimize the turbo charger. I asked him about the "fuel economy" and he laughed and said it would be awful as a result, but that the S'wing would be able to go damn fast! Then he added that he has a turbocharger and oil pump that would be suitable, and I realised then he wasn't joking, but serious.... Alas, total cost would be around £1500.... So I have to ask myself about the err, "value" given I've already spent about £1200 or so on mods on my S'wing that only cost £2000 when I bought it a year ago.... Anyway, I already made a decision about 3 months ago when I spent £1200 on an old 900cc yamaha bike that does that vicious acceleration thing quite nicely, (0-60 in 4 seconds is good enough for me...) and can do about 125 to 130mph and still does 45-50mpg.... If I spend any more money the Mrs might see to it that I end up having to sleep with the bikes in the garage.....

So according to Dave anyway, (and I think you have also done some research haven't you?) a turbo charger is well do-able, and given the Honda's build quality the S'wing should be able to cope with the power, though the drive belts, clutch and rear tyres would wear a bit quicker.....!! The scoot would be much faster, though probably not so much top end, but rather acceleration.... However the fuel economy would take a major hit...

If I ever win the lottery, then maybe....!!!

Shoot, for that kind of money you are almost into the Kawasaki Concourse 1400... but it would be fun to smoke some of those crotch rocket dweebs while riding a "Scooter"...

The Scootist wrote:

Shoot, for that kind of money you are almost into the Kawasaki Concourse 1400... but it would be fun to smoke some of those crotch rocket dweebs while riding a "Scooter"...

Almost worth spending that sort of money

Of course, it would also need a small fortune on putting decent suspension on the Swing to handle the power. Ohlins anyone??

Don't forget the fact that the more you 'soup' it, the quicker you scrap it!

There has already been a detailed report of how to turbocharge a silverwing engine by a group that wanted to install it in a snowmobile.

http://www.mtukrc.org/download/buffalo/suny_buffalo_design_paper_2005.pdf

So its not only doable, its been done.