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 Low speed maneuvering

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john grinsel
Jinglebob
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Jinglebob
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Jinglebob


Number of posts : 297
Location : Sacramento
Points : 5838
Registration date : 2009-07-18

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PostSubject: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 03, 2011 7:33 pm

Went for a nice ride today. Only negative thing was that I nearly dumped the bike on a very sharp low speed turn.

I get that with a CVT transmission, the idea is to keep the gas on a little to keep the clutch engaged while also using the rear brake to control the speed. In theory, that should work. In practice, it's a bit more difficult than that. The control is not nearly as precise as the friction zone in an ordinary motorcycle clutch.

Looks like I need to do some more practicing somewhere... Suspect

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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 2:50 am

As with any bike/scooter rear brake is/can be balancing aid---great for such as lane splitting, slow speed stuff. Good riders do it all the time. Practice.
But
PROBLEM: SilverWing 600 has linked brakes! But rear always seems to come on first.....even in low traction situations........but I hate idea of brake input to front at the time you want rear to straighten bike up or keep power to rear wheel in slow turn, etc. Also for experienced motorcyclists left hand brake sometimes hard in slow speed stuff.....foot brake better (see Helix/Vespa...old German scooters.) The linked braking system has proven safe for most riders---GoldWing, Moto Guzzi. Just from my standpoint takes a little of the fine control away.

If you are not experienced, practice in empty parking lot. But have goal for what you wish to accomplish. Ride everyday!
SilverWing has a lot of power and can/could get away from you.


John Grinsel

John Grinsel
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roadrunner
Super Scooter Rider
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roadrunner


Number of posts : 231
Age : 69
Location : Middleburg FL
Points : 5167
Registration date : 2010-12-12

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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 6:20 am

Jinglebob,

You have the right idea; balance the brakes against the CVT engagement point. As JG alludes, it can be challenging at very low speeds due to the linked braking system. Be especially careful with the bars at sharp angles -- the natural tendency to grab more brake will engage too much up front and will cause the wheel to want to "fold under." Suggest you try using a little more throttle and left brake than you might think so you can get a better feel for the engagement point until you get used to it. Don't use the right lever at all at slow speeds unless you are completely vertical.
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Sweendog
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 154
Location : South New Jersey
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Registration date : 2009-07-12

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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 9:27 am

Sounds like you've got the right idea, getting used to the bike just takes practice. The linked brakes will never be a problem at low speed, unless you whale on the rear brake, which you shouldn't need to do at all to achieve decent control. The feel will be different from the friction zone on a manual transmission cycle for sure, but you can get the same results w/some trial and error.

Empty parking lots are your friend. small moped
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Jinglebob
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Number of posts : 297
Location : Sacramento
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Registration date : 2009-07-18

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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 11:21 am

Yep, great advice, as usual...

Power is not the problem...I get how to use that...the critical point is keeping the clutch engaged. Just a matter of some practice.

Hadn't thought about the linked brakes...forgot about that...suggests very gentle on the rear (left) brake to avoid having the front brake engage...

Hmmm....
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Sweendog
Maxi-Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 154
Location : South New Jersey
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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 12:23 pm

You can easily learn when the front brake engages from the linked system, by doing some braking runs from 30-40 down to zero. Apply the rear-only fairly evenly and quickly, and you'll feel when the extra braking engages. On mine it's what I consider about 55-65% of the squeeze range. When riding slowly, you won't need much rear brake to keep the clutch engaged, so the chance of accidentally engaging the front brake is pretty slim.

Practice is the key though!
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 1:00 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NegpNBY7DIc
how about this for controlled riding.
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Jinglebob
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Number of posts : 297
Location : Sacramento
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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 2:00 pm

That's pretty amazing...
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Winger61
Silver Wing Rider
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Number of posts : 452
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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 3:09 pm

Says it all about the Wing, doesn't it!! Laughing
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Jinglebob
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Super Scooter Rider
Jinglebob


Number of posts : 297
Location : Sacramento
Points : 5838
Registration date : 2009-07-18

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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 4:39 pm

Yep...it also says something about the rider...

As in many other activities and sports, an expert makes a thing look easy because of his or her competence.
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
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Number of posts : 2658
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Points : 8215
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 04, 2011 7:10 pm

Says something about the rider and the Silverwing's low center of gravity.
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel


Number of posts : 3299
Age : 85
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Registration date : 2009-08-18

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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitimeSat Feb 05, 2011 10:11 am

That skill the rider is showing.....should be requirement to get license....and easy to do.


Notice brake light coming on each time he comes to cone----on scooter, matter of gas/brake control/coordination.....and keeping drive line loaded. looking where you are going.

With regular motorcycle gas/clutch/rear brake coordination. These skills are used in everyday riding---swerve,straighten up, brake, etc.

MSF does not cover much of this.

I watched film twice to make sure brake light was coming on. Anybody can do this with some practice. Teaches you also to trust tires. He is probably using feet, too, push right, go right, etc.

Even more fun with man size cones. There is no such thing as too much skill or practice.




John Grinsel




John Grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Low speed maneuvering   Low speed maneuvering I_icon_minitime

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