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PostSubject: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 8:51 pm

Hi I am new to the forum and not yet a Silverwing owner. I ride a Yamaha Majesty often with my wife as co-pilot. I have been very happy with the Majesty, with some issues outstanding. The most important issue and the reason I am thinking of trading up is that my wife is quite uncomfortable on the back of the Majesty. Also the power of the 400cc engine is fine with just me, but with my wife on back the scooter seems to struggle just a little bit. I really don’t feel that I have any reserve power when at highway speed or when climbing hills. So I am looking for more power and a better fit for my wife and a good fit for me. That being said, if I was riding solo all the time I think I would stay with the Majesty. It is a good riding scooter and economical.

With my wife along we ride a touring style, open road at speed; she is not comfortable riding pillion through a twisty road (can’t say as I blame her) so we stick to rural highway or farm country roads. With just myself, I enjoy the twisty roads but my pace is more sedate, I don’t like to push it. We live in an area of varied terrain, mountains to the east, the Pacific Ocean to the west, flat farm lands north and south. I need a machine that can handle the steep mountain roads and highways but is also comfortable on rolling coastal highways and valley heavy traffic.

We have sat (not drove) both a Burgman Exec and Silverwing. On each my wife is more comfortable than the Majesty. She was not sure she would but decided that she likes the foot pegs on the Silverwing; I am uncertain how comfortable pegs would be on long rides, it seems after a full day a person’s foot would get sore. For me the Burgman is less comfortable; I have to reach forward for the hand grips. On the Silverwing the grips seem to be placed in the right place. I am 5’11” with a 32” inseam. My wife is 5’2” with short little legs. I would like a little lower seat as I must toe the ground on the Majesty and both Burg and Wing would give me about half inch.

So I was wondering if anyone had some input that might take the form of Burgman Exec vs Silverwing and considering the riding issues I mentioned above. Yes I know this is a Silverwing forum and perhaps I should not expect a unbised answer, yet I do.

Brian
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 9:14 pm

I can give you some first hand insight into the Swing and a passenger. My wife is also 5'2" and we do lots of highway driving, as often as possible on twisting roads. We have spent up to 8 hours on the Swing in 1 day, with stops every 90 min for either the bladder or stretching or both. She finds the rear pegs comfortable and the leaning into curves does not bother her at all. Maybe your wife just needs to relax more and trust you up front. I know some passengers just don't get the idea that if the bike is leaning through a curve that it won't fall over. I have a rear passenger backrest installed, and a top box behind that. I'm sure both those items add to her feeling of security behind me. She also jambs a cushion between the small of her back and the backrest for added support.
As an aside, the stock Swing vibrates hard under acceleration at low rpm and is a bit of a dog accelerating with 2 up. I installed a J. Costa high performance variator, and it makes a world of difference in reducing vibration and increasing acceleration. Also the addition of progressive HyperPro front springs eliminates any front dive on braking and makes the Swing feel more like a true motorcycle than a scooter.
Feel free to ask me any more specifics about 2 up riding, as that's what 80% of my riding entails.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSat Dec 11, 2010 9:42 pm

Brian,

Welcome to the forum. I have had the Reflex, Majesty, and now the Silver Wing and the Silver Wing has plenty of power for the mountains. I'm in Fremont, Cailfornia so I ride the mountains, twisties, and the flat roads too and the SWing does very good. My wife also likes the footpegs much better than the floorboards of the Majesty.

I don't get the vibration when accelerating and find the SWing to be very smooth. My wife likes the ride much better too and finds it much more comfortable. As Bigbird said, the Hyperpro front springs make a huge improvement in the front handling of the SWing and they only cost me about $175 and really make it much more m/c like in handling. But for power there is plenty to do what you want, although just don't think it will be Gold Wing power.

I have never rode a B650 and they are good sellers and you might want to go to www.burgmanusa.com to look around. I do read alot about their CVT going out and if you don't have the maintenance plan it costs about $3,000 to repair so if you get a B650 I would get the 5 year maintenance plan with it too. By what I have read they do have abit more power but not much and might be a tad smoother. But it seems that those who say it didn't fit them well that it wasn't too comfortable. But any bike that doesn't fit would seem to be uncomfortable.

I had the Majesty for 12,500 miles and my SWing now has about 33,000 miles and I couldn't see going back to the Majesty. It was a very smooth and comfortable bike but the SWing just seems much more planted and certainly more power. I have had it going 80mph up the mountains with my wife and it does great and still has power to pass if I need to.

Good luck with what you decide on and keep up informed.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 12, 2010 12:33 am

Power the SW has, I've had mine up to 107mph as indicated by my GPS. No problem with two up either. I haven't been able to heat up the engine noticeably even on 100+ days, the cooling system is very good with excellent control in that the gauge rarely if ever budges from normal. The two cylinder engine is smooth and has a lot of torque for it's 582ccs. It doesn't compare with my Goldwing 1800 but for a rig with on third the displacement it's amazingly good. I also like the simpler CVT system on the Silverwing. The belt may not last as long as on a Bergman but it's cheaper and simple to change. If you do it yourself which is easy it's around $140 or so. Compare that to the metal belt in the Bergman. The Bergy650 is a fine machine but I like the SW. I'm probably a bit biased because I think Honda makes the best bikes period. Their engines are legend for reliability and long life. Hard to go wrong with a Silverwing.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 13, 2010 12:22 am

Thanks to all who commented, I deeply appreciate the shared opinions.

Bigbird I don’t know how soon I might change the Variator Weights, I doubt right away or at least until the factory warranty has expired. I have heard talk about the poor shocks on the Wing and will defiantly include that as on my list of initial mods. My wife’s problem with curvy roads includes auto riding; she gets motion sick. That kind of thing really puts a damper on a ride whether in a cager or motorcycle. Not really a matter of trust I don't think. She is a real good pillion rider, never gives me a moment of problem. She is rock steady back there.

I think the reliability of the Honda make and the ease of service are factors that have been moving me more and more toward the Silverwing. However, last summer after a particularly long ride, my wife was getting rather sore on the back of the Majesty. We took a rest stop and our partners both of whom were piloting Burgmans offered to let her sit on the back to see how it fit. As she sat on the back of the Exec she told me I needed to buy one! (her emphasis) I sat in the pilots seat but I did not really like the fit; too much of a forward reach for me, and yes, I believe the back rest was in the forward position. I like the fit of the Silverwing. I do want to give her opinion serious consideration; we do a lot of riding together and I would like her to be as comfortable as possible. But I think I am ready to go for the Silverwing.

I understand that Silverwings are no longer being imported into the US, and that there is not a lot of stock out there. If I want one I am feeling I will need to push forward with the purchase soon. I would like to wait for March; I don’t want to buy it just to have it sit out the winter. There is that and also that I just started a new job and would like to make sure it works out before I commit to a purchase.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 13, 2010 12:41 am

Knucklehead wrote:
My wife’s problem with curvy roads includes auto riding; she gets motion sick.

I understand that Silverwings are no longer being imported into the US, and that there is not a lot of stock out there.

Not much you can do about curvy roads and motion sickness, except maybe Gravol before a ride.

The US will still be getting 2010 Swings in 2011, Canada won't.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 13, 2010 9:18 am

Having just changed from the 650 Burgman to the Silver Wing, I don't believe there's any great reliability problems with the Burgman, but it is a lot heavier than the Silver Wing and maintenance is a lot more complex. On my last service just before the Warranty expired, lots of body work and the radiator needed to be removed just to change the spark plugs. Riding at night I often had to close in the electric mirrors to stop being dazzled by car drivers behind me on country roads. There's also too many switches and buttons on the left handlebars and it's too easy to hit the 'Power' switch in the dark when changing from 'Manual' to 'Automatic'.

From a pillion point of view Mrs Meldrew who is 5' 2'' has been very comfortable on the Burgman with no problems getting on or off, and like me she'll miss the the heated seats. The SilverWing passenger seat is about 3¾" shorter' and 3" narrower than the Burgmans, but it does have that butt stop at the back and both have 22" from the top of the passenger seat down to the foot boards/pegs. We haven't done any riding together on the Honda yet, and it'll probably be next Spring before we do. In the meantime it will probably be a good idea for her to have a few practices getting on and off the SilverWing's smaller seat, and me to get used to the extra weight as she climbs onboard.


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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 13, 2010 12:14 pm

Both the Silverwing and Burgman 650 will supply enough power for 2 up riding so I think its a wash in this area.

I too would be a little concerned with the Swing's foot pegs vs. footboards for the Burg. I think on a long trip, the ability to shift foot positions and weight would be a big plus for the pillion on the Burg.

If you're reaching for the handlebars, you can install an aftermarket riser like the Genmar x102. This will raise the handle bars by 1" and bring them closer to you by 1 & 1/2 inches. Works quite well.

Honda's are great mechanically and the Swing is relatively easy to work on and maintain vs. the Burg 650. Having said that, Suzuki's generally are well engineered and very well put together. Our Burg 400 has been a flawless performer over the 37,000 kms. we've had her.

The Big Burg defintely has a more complicated with the tranny set-up and yes, a few of the trannies have failed. I believe as a percentage of all the Burg 650's, the overall failure rate is very low. Having said that, they are expensive to repair/place.

The Burg is also a fair bit heavier ... a consideration for 2 up manouvering in tight places i.e. parking lots.

I concur with the suggestion to go to the burgmanusa site. There are lots of comparisons and commentary related to your interest area.

Good luck choosing ... ~ sonuvabug ~
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 13, 2010 12:48 pm

I didn't read everything but i can tell that i had a 2003 Burgman 650 and after a damaged cvt a few weeks ago i changed to my Swing.

The Swing have a BIG plus on the maintenance side! Igniterchange on Burgman only possible with some pain in the hands or you have to remove the radiator for example
The CVT is great but if you have problems (they are more often on the old models before 2005 with the old cvt) it will be realy expensiv!
Some other parts on Burgman also more expensive, i paid for the Metzeler Feelfree Wintec on Burgman 170€ and on Swing i will get these for 85€

The CVT and the engine runs very smooth, much smoother than on Swing. Normaly the hardware do no problems except the "dieseling" and some cvt-damages.
The frame of Burgmans have normaly corrosion. Not so much, not a big thing but optical not nice.
Burgman is a little bit havier, yes, but you can more weight load on it. You also sit higher on Burgman and it is more active in seatposition and manouvring but i had some problems with my knees on Burgman that i don't have on Swing

If you have any questions more, just ask me Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeMon Dec 13, 2010 9:21 pm

Hi Knucklehead, you will get many mixed reviews comparing the 650 Burg with the Swing so I will give you mine.
My wife likes the floor boards and ride on the pillion seat better on our scooter riding friends Burg. She has had the Swing rear pegs fold up on her while mounting/dismounting as they fold out at an angle. But saying that she still likes the ride on the Swing very much.
As others have said the Swing is much more maintenance friendly and is a blast to ride. Me, I could ride and own either and be very much satisfied.
There are some on this site who have owned both so thier info would probably hold more substance than mine. Enjoy the ride whatever it is. Dick
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 16, 2010 8:17 am

At the end of the day, how long is a piece of string??? If possible get out and ride both machines before choosing; that way you will know which is for you.

Having said that, have you looked at a DN-01??? Seems like the best of both worlds to me (if the styling is to your taste also) - auto box with manual switching and shaft drive, so no belt to worry about. Maintenance is easy, the engine is a development of a 20+ year old design and bomb proof.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 19, 2010 5:03 am

On DN-01 you don't have realy space for your helmet or something else...
And the gear.... I think wait a few years, it is a complete new technology (for Cars or Motorbikes) and i don't know how good it is realy and how much maintenance is needed...

The Burgman also have no Belt or better: no Belt that needs maintenance and the drive mechanism is also maintenance free (if you are not a jinx like me, i had a damaged SECVT) except an Oilchange on Gearbox but that you also have on Cardan and surely also on the Transmision of the DN-01 (it is an assembly of hydraulic pump and Motor)
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 19, 2010 7:19 am

BlackFly wrote:
On DN-01 you don't have realy space for your helmet or something else...
And the gear.... I think wait a few years, it is a complete new technology (for Cars or Motorbikes) and i don't know how good it is realy and how much maintenance is needed...

The Burgman also have no Belt or better: no Belt that needs maintenance and the drive mechanism is also maintenance free (if you are not a jinx like me, i had a damaged SECVT) except an Oilchange on Gearbox but that you also have on Cardan and surely also on the Transmision of the DN-01 (it is an assembly of hydraulic pump and Motor)

I can see where your coming from, but every bike needs some maintenance, the Silverwing Scoots need relatively little, compared to my 83 650 Silverwing! I also agree that new designs need to be developed but I would hope that Honda had done most of that, ironing out any bugs, prior to releasing the machines forsale.

As far as I can see the Dino is an amalgamation of good bits from various machines, the engine is a well know quantity, shaft drive is virtually maintenance free, the actual cycle parts themselves are excellent quality; the only real unknown is the hydraulic converter and to be honest thats not exactly the most complicated item on the planet.

I think the lack of helmet storage is a moot point as fitting a topbox would probably be the first thing, as most folks seem to do, after getting one!
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSun Dec 19, 2010 1:24 pm

First I have ridden 650 Burgman, owned Burgman 400, Yamaha TMAX.

Problem in most modern scooters and bikes (except Vespa and a Guzzi or two), the passenger is jacked way up in the air by the stepped seat---causing to get head blown off=discomfort.

Second. Pegs are better than footboards as an active passenger working with you as team should be putting lots of weight on pegs (relieves back pain and stress on spine.)

I bought SilverWing rather than Burgman 650 because....lighter, easier to work on, Honda Parts service. What am I getting next? Who knows but I try to get one new bike ayear......and the MaxiScooter field is about dead now with lots of ten year old designs. SilverWing has enough power 2 up provided you remember it is scooter not sub for motorcycle.

Givi does make a passenger back rest that can be used in conjunction with their rack and top box....and solid mounts to bike. I don't recommend back rest on box as it beats the passenger to death as the box bounces. Purpose of back or hip rests is to prevent passenger from slipping off on acceleration, not to sleep on.

Most passengers I see look miserable----but noticed a couple of years ago in Italy, coupe (team) on flat seated new Triumph going well.....and fast. Passenger did not look miserable due to sensible seat! Do Designers ever ride?

John Grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 22, 2010 6:52 pm

During the many short-track test rides on my Burgy around the Moscow motel I got a lot of questions on why I changed from the SWing (RIP) to the Burgy. I bought my SWing new in '03 and put over 30,000 miles on it until totaled in '10. The SWing is a nice scoot, I'm glad I got a chance to experience it.
After being totaled by a gal that blew a stop sign and broadsided me, I decided to try a Burgy 650.

The Burgy has two triple trees, like a real bike, surprisingly the SWing only had one.
Sometimes in the twisties the SWing would get a case of 'happy feet' when leaned
over in the twisties, especially if any wash boarding was present. The Burgy stays
pretty well planted and dives into the turns.

At first I thought the Auto/Manual/Power tranny was just a gimmick with paddle shifter and all.
However after putting almost 5,000 miles on it I've reconsidered.

The Burgy gets MUCH better mileage than the SWing at all speeds. (At TexSTOC I actually got
72.5 MPG during a leisurely ride down the Jimez and always in the mid 50's when running 70 to 75
x-country, even riding two-up and GIVI loaded. Only carries 4 gallons but will go 200+ miles
out on the road) Just around town I use the Auto mode. When sustaining speeds over ~50 I use the
Manual mode. It offers 5 gears with an Overdrive on top. This Overdrive drops the revs just over
500 RPM from what the Auto mode or 5th gear spins at the same speeds. Even though it's a CVT
tranny there are definite transitions when going through the gears in Manual mode.
I haven't looked into how they do this but it works. It will override/switch to whatever it needs
if you forget. Like if, when in Manual mode, you slow to a stop in 5th gear and it starts lugging
it will downshift to whatever is appropriate. It has a surprising amount of deceleration too.
The Power mode just allows the Manual shift points to occur at higher RPM's.
I've had it to 111 MPH, GPS, at CO altitude, felt like that was all it had.

It has 1" larger wheels 15" and 14" vs. 14" and 13". Less drama negotiating large potholes.

Has sharper turning radius.

Is quicker as one would expect with 50 more cc's, however still can't keep up with the
1100/1300's on the long, uphill pulls. Just no substitute for the high-revving big cubic inches,
however keeps up pretty well under other conditions. I think it has more ability than I have talent.

Has aux cigar lighter socket.

Has TWO rotors up front.

Has fork gaiters.

Has the ST-type/positioned mirrors with lots of viewing. They also fold back or forward
with good detents. Less drama in the garage.

Has 4-way flashers.

Has digital instrument panel with temp and time.

OEM saddle is much more comfortable...not quite a Russell but better than the SWing.

Has switchable night light under the raised saddle instead of inside the storage compartment
among all the stuff you're trying to see.

Mine is the Standard model. The Executive model has ABS, electrically adjustable windshield,
electrically retractable mirrors and...something else, at about $1K more.


===========

Below is a tidbit I just posted to the BurgmanUSA.com forum:

"I just got back from a couple trips, ST gatherings. Put over 5,000
mostly highway miles on in less than 3 weeks.

Earlier I'd determined that the odometer on the bike indicated 3%
more than actual miles. This was verified by the Zumo GPS and to a
lesser degree the mile markers on the interstates.

Between trips to ID and later to Los Alamos, NM I had a darkside
Bridgestone Potenza RE92 165/65-14 tire installed as the original was
down to the wear bars at a little over 6,000 miles.

This changed two things...the speedo was now only indicating ~2% more
than actual rather than the original +10% error.

Also the Burgy's odo now indicates 3% LESS than actual miles.
Verified with Zumo's resettable odo.

The MPG's were in the mid to high 50's using the corrected GPS miles.
During the run from Los Alamos north to Poncha Springs, CO we were
averaging about 70 to 75. I went 209 corrected miles and it took 3.6
gallons for ~58 MPG.

The best mileage I got was a leisurely jaunt and return down to Jimez
Valley SW of Los Alamos. I don't think we went over 60 MPH all day.
The mileage was 72.5 MPG using the corrected mileage.

The Burgy impresses me, and others, more everyday.

Whit
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeWed Dec 22, 2010 8:49 pm

Congrats on the Burgy and glad you are enjoying it.

To answer your question:
"Even though it's a CVT tranny there are definite transitions when going through the gears in Manual mode. I haven't looked into how they do this but it works. "

The Swing uses a front variator that relies on centrifugal force to vary the distance between the two front sheaves. The varying of this distance causes the drive belt to change its rotating diameter, and thus drive ratio. The centrifugal force works with rollers, sliders, or pins (depending on whether you're using a stock Honda front variator or a J. Costa) to push the sheaves apart or bring them closer together at a specified rate of change. This allows different rates of acceleration, depending on engine rpm.

The Burgy uses an electronically activated mechanism instead of pins, rollers, or sliders to vary the rotating diameter. The "shifting" that you refer to is caused by the rotating diameter being changed not smoothly and continuously, but in notches or steps. This stepped movement between the two front sheaves mimics the feel of shifting as is found in a manumatic type auto transmission relying on planetary and sun gears.
That electronic type of Burgy tranny is great until something goes wrong. When it does, have your wallet filled and ready. Also the Burgy uses a steel drive belt instead of a composite belt. The steel belt is supposed to last a long time, but when it fails have that wallet ready. If I seem negative about the Burgy's electronic sophistication, I'm not trying to be. I'm just pointing out that the sophistication comes at a cost, either up front on purchase or down the road in maintenance.
Again, enjoy the Burgy's more modern sophistication compared to the old school mechanicals of the Swing.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeThu Dec 23, 2010 7:54 pm

Whitster, thanks for the information. Sounds like you are really enjoying your ride.

Dick
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeFri Dec 24, 2010 11:20 am

I think they are both great bikes. I have two friends with Burgmans and they really enjoy them. I looked at both but got the Silverwing. I'm short, 5'2" and had the seat cut down and the shocks set down to the lowest position. Now that the shocks have relaxed, it's over 20k now, I feel very comfortable on the bike. The Burg seemed heavy and much wider than the wing, plus a bit more weight. I like the lighter feel of the wing. Either would be a great choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 22, 2011 10:15 am

I went to a motorcycle show in dallas a while back before i bought my swing. In the scooter section, the majesty, Burg650 and Swing were in close proximity. I would sit on the three bikes continously. Then eliminated the majesty, then eliminated the burg. the swing just feels better when sitting on it, hands on the bars and looking forward. The other two scoots had more bells and whistles but the swing felt the best. Pair the comfort with honda quality and you can t go wrong. Later i found a swing at a great deal and remembered this experience....SO I BOUGHT IT!
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 29, 2011 8:56 pm

After much consideration and some time sitting on both Burgman and Silverwing, both my wife (pilion) and myself decided to change from our trusty Majesty to a Sliverwing. Right now we are planning on a March purchase. However, if circumstances are favorable then sooner.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 29, 2011 9:12 pm

FlyingWing wrote:
I went to a motorcycle show in dallas a while back before i bought my swing. In the scooter section, the majesty, Burg650 and Swing were in close proximity. I would sit on the three bikes continously. Then eliminated the majesty, then eliminated the burg. the swing just feels better when sitting on it, hands on the bars and looking forward. The other two scoots had more bells and whistles but the swing felt the best. Pair the comfort with honda quality and you can t go wrong. Later i found a swing at a great deal and remembered this experience....SO I BOUGHT IT!

FlyingWing,

Congrats on your new SWing and I'm sure you will really enjoy it. I have had the Reflex, Majesty, and now the SWing and the SWing is really nice on the interstates 2 up. I also love riding this thing in the twisties too.


Knucklehead wrote:
"After much consideration and some time sitting on both Burgman and Silverwing, both my wife (pilion) and myself decided to change from our trusty Majesty to a Sliverwing. Right now we are planning on a March purchase. However, if circumstances are favorable then sooner."

Knuclehead,

You will really enjoy the SWing with your wife. My wife and I liked the Majesty a lot but the SWing just does a better job and is more stable and comfortable, in both of our opinions. I really liked the Majesty and it did a great job but the SWing is still a step up. Congrats on your decision and keep us informed.

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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSat Jan 29, 2011 10:12 pm

One of the things that decided me on the Silverwing instead of the Burgman was the simpler drive system on the SW. The Burgman's drive is pretty well trouble free but if anything goes wrong with it I suspect parts are going to be more expensive and more bother to replace. Since I do my own mechanical work I like simpler systems. I have enough complication on my GW.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 30, 2011 12:54 am

JeffR
I know I will enjoy the Swing. It was hard enough to walk off the showroom floor with out it. As much as I liked the Majesty for myself it really sucked for my wife. Longer rides were quite uncomfortable for her.

exavid
I considered the greater mechanical simplicity as a plus for the Swing as well. I know a lot of people who love thier Burgs, but all the gadgets are not needed. Call me a Luddite, but I am not that keen on the sophisticated hardware. And like you, I like to be able to do much of the maintenance on my machine; I guess that’s just part of the fun of having a motorcycle or scooter.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeSun Jan 30, 2011 1:17 am

I settled on either a T max which prooved tooooo tall or the Swing, which was just right. I dropped the idea of a Burgman early after riding 40 kays as pillion on one. The ownwer never could understand why his wife didn't go with hom very often. I set him straight. Shortish people can't reach the footpads and end up with only about 1/2" on the edge at best because of the Burgman's big ass.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 09, 2011 1:06 pm

bigbird wrote:
Congrats on the Burgy and glad you are enjoying it.

That electronic type of Burgy tranny is great until something goes wrong. When it does, have your wallet filled and ready. Also the Burgy uses a steel drive belt instead of a composite belt. The steel belt is supposed to last a long time, but when it fails have that wallet ready. If I seem negative about the Burgy's electronic sophistication, I'm not trying to be. I'm just pointing out that the sophistication comes at a cost, either up front on purchase or down the road in maintenance.
Again, enjoy the Burgy's more modern sophistication compared to the old school mechanicals of the Swing.

I haven't really heard of the Burgy's many tranny failures you infer, but did recently see this one on the SWing:

"Subject: [hondasilverwings] Clutch went Bang
Reply-To: hondasilverwings@yahoogroups.com
X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email-tradt-m


Well I finally had my first major repair after 70,000 miles on my 2002 Silverwing.
Was going about 65 MPH on the highway when the rear wheel locked and the Wing stalled. I was able to luckily bring it to the side of the road without dropping the bike.

Had it sent to the Honda dealer where I was informed that the entire clutch assembly is destroyed and must be replaced.

Looking at about $1200 for everything, not a nice start to the spring riding season but I don't have enough money to buy anything else....."

So, like with anything mechanical, they all have their foibles.

Whit


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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 09, 2011 1:26 pm

The failure of the Burgman transmission is not so rare especially on the "old" CVT before 2005!
There is a poll in a german AN650 Forum, 37 persons without problems, 8 with problems. I was unable to poll there, i'm also had a failure and needed a new CVT, costs about 3000€ (i think something in the area 3500-4000$). I asked some "crash-bike-dealers" but noone want to buy this Burgman. Everyone said that he can get a few Burgmans with CVT failure but noone can get a used CVT...
So i sold (very expensive) the AN650 and bought (very cheap Wink) the Silver Wing
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 09, 2011 4:48 pm

There is one person, WildBillPurdue, that is on his 3rd CVT on his B650 and his bike is only 2years old. It doesnt' happen often but the burgman site think that you need to replace the "stopper bolt" to prevent it from happening. If the CVT does go it is about $3,000. There are reports of it happening and if you don't have the extended maintenance plan most just junk it for parts. They have many posts on the burgman site on this but it doesn't happen to much really.

It wouldn't prevent me from buying a B650 but I would get the longest maintenance plan they have though. Bill has to sue Suzuki now to try to get some money back.
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PostSubject: Re: Questions on Wings vs Burgman   Questions on Wings vs Burgman I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 10, 2011 12:59 am

I replaced the "stopper bolt" approx 5.000km before the CVT died Wink

They changed something in the CVT with the 2005 modellchange. After this, the dieseling are also better...

If i will buy a AN650 again, i will take a modell after 2005. They are some garantee CVT changes beause of some noise, but the fatal damages are mostly the models before 2005

PS: I think one of the most important reasons for the CVT deads in all the modellyears are the owner who cleaned the Burgman! Between the engine and the CVT is a little space. In this space comes the shaft from the engine and goes into the CVT. On the CVT entry is no seal or anything else! If you hold with the high press water into this area, you will flush the CVT!!!
The other thing is the Adapter between the Engineshaft and CVTshaft. They modified this adapter with the 2005 model, therefore you don't have this extreme dieseling. That also means that there is not so much play in the Adapter that kills the CVT bearing...
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