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 Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024

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Terry Smith
sonuvabug
Anders L
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Anders L
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Anders L


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Age : 33
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PostSubject: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 03, 2024 12:15 pm

Hello :-)

I had a mechanic do a big service on my silverwing 400 2007 last year. But its very jumpy and keeps eating front wheel bearing.

He has agreed to reedo the front wheel bearing and rebuild the fork, if I can find solid answers to how much oil goes in the fork and wich oil.

Can anyone help? :-)

Anders
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2024 2:24 pm

Anders, there is a Honda fork oil available. "Pro Honda Suspension Fluid SS-8". I believe it is a 10 weight oil (not 100% sure on this). If you want a stiffer front end, some use 15 weight. If you're tearing down the fork, there is an extension spring kit that can be added while it is apart. I'm doing that to my SWing when I service the front forks.

Front fork oil fluid capacity, according to the Service Manual, is 10.2 US ounces or 10.6 Imperial ounces. Both have about an +/- wiggle room of about .08 US oz. and .09 Imp. oz. respectively. The specified "Oil Level" is 97 mm (3.8 inches) from the top.

I strongly recommend you get a Service Manual. If you join Facebook's silverwing600 page/group, there is a downloadable version of the Service Manual in their "Files" section.

Having said that, this forum is THE place to be regarding reliable information and knowledgeable members. IMO, the Facebook site has a lot of members from all over, language is an issue as is the general knowledge base of the membership.

They have lots of people spouting things off the top of their head based on what they personally "think" vs. what is known fact and good data. Good Luck.

BTW - I'd be worried about a mechanic who seemed to get it wrong the first time and doesn't know some of the above information. Get a Service Manual and hand it to him when you hand over your SWing for servicing. Better yet, find another mechanic who is more knowledgeable and competent.



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Terry Smith
Touring Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2024 4:00 pm

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dcdcpxkyuauh44x/Honda%202002-2013%20Honda%20Silverwing%20Service%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

The link above should get you a copy of the service manual in .pdf form.

I'm not sure why wheel bearings would fail quickly, normally these are good for 50000+km. If they are incorrectly installed e.g. driven in on the inner bearing rather than the outer shell, or regularly cleaned with a pressure washer, or just bad quality bearings then maybe. I assume that the spacer that lives inside the wheel between the left and right bearing is in place.

The Swing fork is not a sophisticated piece, being a damper rod design. These are a compromise between comfort and control; if you want more control then thicker oil leads to harshness on bigger bumps. I fitted a Cartridge Emulator kit to mine and it worked as promised, a more supple ride on bumps, and much better control of damping. Heavier springs with less preload will also improve ride comfort.
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 05, 2024 4:53 pm

I wrote in another thread that I used HyperPro springs as well as 5W Amsoil Shock Therapy fluid. The Swing was more wallowy in the past (it rode and handled fine actually, but now I have a comparison point compared with OEM fluid and springs)- it handles and rides very well with the lighter weight fluid but performance springs. Not harsh at all and doesn’t seem at all to bottom out on bigger bumps and railroad tracks. The issue is that fluids, even if rated, 5W, 10W, or 15W, may have slight variances in viscosity based on an individual company’s formulation of the fluid, so I assume this might alter the rebound a bit. As far as level/ volume, I filled my forks according to volume, so I ended up with ~ 310 ml per fork leg, and I am very pleased with the results. YMMV… thumbs up
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Anders L
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Anders L


Number of posts : 36
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Location : Kerteminde, Denmark
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06, 2024 9:44 am

Hello, thanks all!
The story is I bought the scooter in germany, imported it to denmark and payed heavy for that. Silverwing was not sold new in denmark, so no one to buy second hand. Started driving it and discovered all the things wrong with it. So I contacted some motorcycle mechanics, they all pretty much said 'hmpf, we dont have that model in our system and we are not really scooter experts here'. WT? I thought. Ended up getting in contact with a guy who has a auto shop close to me, but he did the motorcycle mechanic school, not the auto. He just does both. So he started fixing it for me.
Complete new clutch, vario, belt, everything in driveline.
All fluids, new disc's, pads, diaphrams, new parking brake caliper, rebuild the fork, new tyres, new wheel bearings, new crown tube bearing, new lambda sensor and many more stuff I cant remember.
All OEM parts.
But after that I still had trouble. Something with the brakes and this issue with it beeing very jumpy and all over the road. Then the front wheel bearing went shot. He replaced it. Good for 25kms. Shot again.
Then I started wondering and went trough my receipts. And I noticed he used a wrong type of gearoil on it. So I asked where that info came frome and he said 'the place where I look bikes up'. And I saw that page. And it didnt seem very correct. And thats is the page he pulled all info from. Thats the page the fork where rebuild from. So I think hes okay, but the info hes working under is crap. Silverwing is not known here in denmark.
So know on wednesday hes going to replace the wheel bearing again, take the fork off again, check the legs and reedo the oil on it. Hes not gonna take it apart again, hes just gonna drain the oil by doing it upsode down and putting new oil in it in the 'correct level' that im being told to find out what is :-) I had a very saggy fork before rebuild, could easy bottom out, but it was a smooth ride none the less. Now after rebuild, its so unpleasant to hit speed bumps and so on, my back feel it. I feel like there is less travel now but it bottoms out just as easy. My calfs and arms shaking when driving. So so bumpy. He did mention that the crown bearing he tightnt it just a notch over the spec to prevend it coming a litlle loose again as it could ofnt do on these big scooters he said. But what was the torque data he started out with, I dont know. It was hard driving the bike for the first 3 weeks with the bearing being so tight. Feels okay now. But can that cause all of this wheel bearing eating and jumpy front end?
And yes I am going to be very aware of the spacers and so on when he takes it apart! Im gonna be there for an hour while he works on it so im gonna check if it was put correct together the last time he had the wheel off it, I am aware of the spacers now, I wasnt in the beginning. But he should know, so I believe they are all there.
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06, 2024 2:25 pm

If by crown bearing, you mean the steering head bearings, over-tight is no good (nor is under). The bike will weave and won’t maintain a straight line, plus the bearings will likely wear sooner. Most of us here have become accustomed to maintaining the bikes ourselves as in the US, many dealerships won’t work on anything so old, but an independent shop likely would assuming they had access to the specific service info of the bike needed . Your guy isn’t very familiar with the SWing, so maybe it’s time to seek another mechanic. You would do well by getting the Honda Service Manual if you can source one. It has the tear down info you need as well as all the torque specs.
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cello33
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 06, 2024 6:21 pm

ok i have a 02 fjs600 swinger and done the fork oil replacement a couple of times, search for my thread and you will read what i did , to date i have had no issues with my forks after fitting the additional 1 inch springs , the ride is much better and hardly no bottoming out on horrible pot holed uk roads.

if you also mean that you get some head shake when taking your hands off the bars you may have your steering head bold abit on the loose side , when tightening it up you have to take all the bars off the stem and this weight makes the forks easier to turn so in essence you have to go a bit tighter initially , not super tight but just enough to not allow the bars to flop side to side , fit the bars centre the forks/bar arrangement and go for a test drive. dont fit all the handle bar plastic as you might have to adjust again.

the handling could be flighty if the front wheel is out of balance or rubbing on the brake caliper , my front wheel bearings have done 54kand al is welll.

get your spanners out , the wing is ok to tinker with , its all designed well and you need to get to know your bike.

hope you have some success
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2024 12:46 pm

The service manual requires that when installing the front wheel that you:

"Hold the axle and tighten the axle bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 59 N•m (6.0 kgf•m, 43 lbf.ft)

Tighten the left axle holder bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 22 N•m (2.2 kgf•m, 16 lbf.ft)

With the front brake applied, pump the fork up and
down several times to seat the axle
and check
brake operation.

Check the brake operation by applying the brake lever.

Tighten the right axle holder bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 22 N•m (2.2 kgf•m, 16 lbf.ft)"

Pumping the forks before torquing up the right hand axle holder may not be widely known. It may account for premature wheel bearing wear.
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2024 4:09 pm

The procedure described for remounting the axle is important to get the fork legs to sit parallel to each other; if you don't do this, it is possible to have the ends of the forks pulled inwards or outwards, and that introduces binding especially when the fork is compressed. However, the axle tightening procedure won't have an impact on the wheel bearing life.

The wheel bearings can be messed up by their initial installation. When the wheel is installed and the axle bolt is tightened, the bearing inners will be clamped between the external axle spacers and the inner spacer. If the bearings are not driven in correctly (or the inner spacer is missing) then the bearings can apply a side-load to the balls and outer shells which will quickly destroy them.


Last edited by Terry Smith on Sun Apr 07, 2024 6:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2024 6:31 pm

Loosemarbles wrote:
The service manual requires that when installing the front wheel that you:

"Hold the axle and tighten the axle bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 59 N•m (6.0 kgf•m, 43 lbf.ft)

Tighten the left axle holder bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 22 N•m (2.2 kgf•m, 16 lbf.ft)

With the front brake applied, pump the fork up and
down several times to seat the axle
and check
brake operation.

Check the brake operation by applying the brake lever.

Tighten the right axle holder bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 22 N•m (2.2 kgf•m, 16 lbf.ft)"

Pumping the forks before torquing up the right hand axle holder may not be widely known. It may account for premature wheel bearing wear.

I never tried it that way. Always torqued axle bolt with both holders-pinch bolts loose bounced it several times and then tightened both pinch bolts. Many tire changes and fork work on many bikes this method works well for me.

Another issue is the fork tubes need to be even as possible when tightened in upper clamps there is some play in those bolts as well.
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Terry Smith
Touring Scooter Rider
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Terry Smith


Number of posts : 388
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 07, 2024 6:47 pm

Mech 1 twa wrote:
Loosemarbles wrote:
The service manual requires that when installing the front wheel that you:

"Hold the axle and tighten the axle bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 59 N•m (6.0 kgf•m, 43 lbf.ft)

Tighten the left axle holder bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 22 N•m (2.2 kgf•m, 16 lbf.ft)

With the front brake applied, pump the fork up and
down several times to seat the axle
and check
brake operation.

Check the brake operation by applying the brake lever.

Tighten the right axle holder bolt to the specified torque. TORQUE: 22 N•m (2.2 kgf•m, 16 lbf.ft)"

Pumping the forks before torquing up the right hand axle holder may not be widely known. It may account for premature wheel bearing wear.

I never tried it that way. Always torqued axle bolt with both holders-pinch bolts loose bounced it several times and then tightened both pinch bolts. Many tire changes and fork work on many bikes this method works well for me.

Another issue is the fork tubes need to be even as possible when tightened in upper clamps there is some play in those bolts as well.

I can't see that it will matter whether both clamps are loose as the action of tightening the axle bolt will pull the axle hard into the left clamp so it won't move whether the clamp is tight or not. My other motorcycles don't even have a second clamp. The key part is to bounce the forks with the other clamp loose so the fork can find its most "relaxed" position on the axle.

Your point about making sure the forks are even is well-made. I like to check that by fitting just the axle first, if the forks are positioned correctly the axle should slip easily through both clamps with no binding.
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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 10, 2024 5:21 am

So, just got home from the mechanic. I was allowed to stay and watch so I could get it just the way I wanted.
We measured the oil level in the forks, it was a bit shy to the recommended 97mm. We dropped the 'old' oil and put new 10w oil in at exactly 97mm and put it back together.
We replaced the wheel bearings with new oem ones. We put it all together again, double checked every spacer and bolt and all the torques double checked. We are gonna wait a little bit with loosen the stearing head bearing just a bit, we do that another day if needed. We followed all the honda instructions when putting it back together, allignement and so on.
I drive it home (8kms) and its better than before. But Im still not sure if I have a small jumping feeling in the front wheel sometimes. But its hard to tell, being the small wheels and bad roads and so on. Gonna drive it for some days and then do a verdict. And I still got that houwling sound around 80km/h, sounds exactly like a **** wheel bearing.
Im still not super satisfied, maybe I try another tyre and new ballancement later on the year.
But the tyres are brand new citygrip 2 and all ballanced and all that.
Regarding to if the mechanic had done any 'mistakes' the first time, I dont know, the oil level in the forks was not spot on, but pretty close though.
The front wheel axle was 50nm instead of 59nm. The rear wheel bolt was 100nm instead of 138nm. So we got that corrected. I think that was all we could do today, gonna drive it a bit and see how it feels.
He didnt charge me anything for the work today and we had a lovely time, hes just a one man garage, him and his dog. Hes around my age, mid 30's. And hes very near by, thats nice. I dont have that many other mechanic options around here, and the ones that is has done my bikes bad in the past. So im happy with the mechanic I have, he just doesnt know every spec on every bike, especially not one that was never sold here and he has never seen it before, I think thats okay. Im gonna accept the silverwing is a bit special here in skandi and I trust his skills just fine.
But im deffently gonna wrench some more myself now having the repair manual on the phone. Normally I only do the engine oil, oil filter, airfilter and gearbox oil, the small stuff myself. Looking forward to getting the bodywork off and see what I actually have. Smile
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Anders L
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PostSubject: Re: Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024   Fork specs, please help before 9/4/2024 I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 11, 2024 9:58 am

Im going by the mechanic tommorow, we are going to change the bearing that sits in the vario cover. The bearing that supports the clutch or something? Pretty big bearing. And double check the torque settings on clutch and vario
Maybe that helps with my jumpy silverwing, I dont know.
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