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 acceleration feels different these days.

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Delray
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PostSubject: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 03, 2023 4:39 pm

All of a sudden when I hit the acceleration there's a much bigger gap in between it actually catching the point of actuation. I can feel the difference as before my bike used to take off at about 2,000 RPM sharp but now it seems to be pulling off at about 2300 RPMs and is responsiveness doesn't feel the same anymore. So yesterday I stripped down the entire clutch assembly and did inspection but didn't find anything alarming I can't quite understand why it would be doing this. The motor is very healthy it spins up just fine. The belt is as tight as it needs to be and I have everything torqued to specification But it's just not as responsive. Also the RPMs versus the MPH doesn't seem to feel the same either, feels like it's taking more RPMs to get a higher speed than what I used to. The only things I couldn't probably suspect is either the rollers are getting worn out or something is up with the air box. (Haven't checked the air box yet)
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 03, 2023 5:18 pm

Ever think it is just an old bike?
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 03, 2023 5:42 pm

Could be, as you question, worn/flat spot on the rollers. If you are going to replace the original variator rollers you might consider going to 26gm Dr Pulley sliding weights or 26gm Tech Pulley weights.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 03, 2023 7:15 pm

Hi XDM.
If you have injection, try cleaning the Lambda sensor on the exhaust by removing, and giving it a good spray with brake cleaner. Made a difference to my low rpms(@20kMls)
Often overlooked sensor, no it's not a fit and forget item!

Just a thought as your going to lengths to check the air box .....

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen and heard!
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 03, 2023 10:06 pm

JohnyC wrote:
Hi XDM.
If you have injection, try cleaning the Lambda sensor on the exhaust by removing, and giving it a good spray with brake cleaner. Made a difference to my low rpms(@20kMls)
Often overlooked sensor, no it's not a fit and forget item!

Just a thought as your going to lengths to check the air box .....

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen and heard!

You know, I have NEVER checked that o2  sensor never l before. I will be checking and cleaning that when I check the air box. 👍


Last edited by XDM© on Tue Apr 04, 2023 2:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 03, 2023 10:08 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Could be, as you question, worn/flat spot on the rollers. If you are going to replace the original variator rollers you might consider going to 26gm Dr Pulley sliding weights or 26gm Tech Pulley weights.

Aftermarket rollers have always been a thought in the back of my mind I just need to research and figure out which ones are right for me. I heard some effect speed some effect acceleration. Looks interesting.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 04, 2023 7:41 am

I have found that new plugs and air filter make a difference to the performance of my SW. I have tried Polini 26g rollers and Dr Pulley 26g sliders over the years and experienced problems with acceleration and engine over-speeding. The V light came on from time to time so I reverted back to OEM 28g rollers.

No problems since then.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 24, 2023 6:55 pm

So I did everything besides the rollers so.
Changed the LONG overdue spark plugs with some iridium, Curved l cleaned the air box. I don't think I have a o2 sensor on my model bike (2005) so all that remains is the CVT.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 7:21 am

I switched to iridium plugs at 8K and it has been great. 26K now and the plugs are fine. I did change my rollers for 28g sliders (DR Pulley) as I wanted to keep the powerband close to stock. The sliders are nice but I saw no real difference between them and Honda rollers except for double the price. YMMV, but I will go back to rollers when a change is necessary. Good luck.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 12:16 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
I switched to iridium plugs at 8K and it has been great. 26K now and the plugs are fine. I did change my rollers for 28g sliders (DR Pulley) as I wanted to keep the powerband close to stock. The sliders are nice but I saw no real difference between them and Honda rollers except for double the price. YMMV, but I will go back to rollers when a change is necessary. Good luck.
I have always been interested in playing around with the performance on this bike. Example reducing the amount of throttle needed to initially get moving. I'll have to do some deep research to figure out what kind of rollers I want in order to be comfortable.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 1:39 pm

[quote="XDM©"]
GHM-PM wrote:
I'll have to do some deep research to figure out what kind of rollers I want in order to be comfortable.

As noted, 26-gram Dr. Pulley sliding weights are popular for better acceleration in take off and mid-range (OEM rollers are 28-gram).

Recently, I tried 19-gram Dr. Pulley sliding weights on my '04 Silver Wing for a week. Instant rocketship. During that week, I literally looked at the dashboard a few times to verify I was on a Silver Wing. I couldn't believe it was the same bike.

It helped that I have a Malossi Wild Lion exhaust, which provides an exciting soundtrack. Downside: the engine revs 500 rpm's higher through the power band and gas mileage goes straight to hell. I took them off the bike and installed sensible Dr. Pulley 28-gram sliding weights. Better acceleration than OEM rollers but nothing like the 19-gram sliders. I tucked those in a drawer for "maybe someday, if I'm feeling rambunctious ...."
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 3:57 pm

Hi "XDM"
XDM:copyright: wrote:
I'll have to do some deep research to figure out what kind of rollers I want in order to be comfortable.

Having tried every currently available "strapadicktome" the only single mod that did instantly transform my Swing, and the cheapest btw, was to replace the driven clutch contra spring for a Malossi white spring.(read my post)
Just search Malossi White for the pictures of how too.
Then comes the icing on the cake using 27g Dr.Pulley sliders for the increased top end speed and better fuel consumption of freeways and open roads compared to stock figures.
Ok I also have other mods but there fine tuning and not needed unless your anal like me. lol

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 5:47 pm

I enjoy reading about the experimentation for performance on the Silver Wing, but question the logic. Personally I find the machine was designed well for MY use. To make a 120 HP firebreathing monster out of one is funny since then the suspension, tires, wheels and forks would need to be replaced. I am not trying to belittle anyone just trying to understand why the initial purchase wasn't a sport bike? (Yamaha R6 or the like). Excuse me while I go put on my fire retardant underwear!!! Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 7:37 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
To make a 120 HP firebreathing monster out of one is funny since then the suspension, tires, wheels and forks would need to be replaced

I get what you're saying. During my wild week with 19-gram Dr. Pulley sliding weights, I had a few anxious moments where I felt, "Wow, I just reached the limits of what this bike is engineered for, and I got there real fast. I need to back off."

Why try it at all? Why not a sport bike? Two reasons. One is pure fun. I've owned six Wings and it was a blast to ride one that was a little rocket. Second reason is I've never been a sport bike type. Zero interest in leaning forward, legs down. That looks about as comfortable as ape hanger handlebars. I'm a cruiser. Always have been. Adding speed to the Wing was my attempt to see if you can have the best of both worlds, the thrill of a serious motorcycle and the comforts of a Silver Wing. And for the most part, it worked.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 8:43 pm

Delray wrote:


Why try it at all? Why not a sport bike? Two reasons. One is pure fun. I've owned six Wings and it was a blast to ride one that was a little rocket. Second reason is I've never been a sport bike type. Zero interest in leaning forward, legs down. That looks about as comfortable as ape hanger handlebars. I'm a cruiser. Always have been. Adding speed to the Wing was my attempt to see if you can have the best of both worlds, the thrill of a serious motorcycle and the comforts of a Silver Wing. And for the most part, it worked.

I agree, I have ridden sport bikes and I am way too old for that crap! My son had a Ninja a few years ago and wow did that thing MOVE. So lets go farther back how about a Kawasaki H-2 750 3 cylinder monster. They didn't call it the "Widow maker" for nothing!
Talk about too much HP for suspension...
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 10:49 pm

JohnyC wrote:
Hi "XDM"
XDM:copyright: wrote:
I'll have to do some deep research to figure out what kind of rollers I want in order to be comfortable.

Having tried every currently available "strapadicktome" the only single mod that did instantly transform my Swing, and the cheapest btw, was to replace the driven clutch contra spring for a Malossi white spring.(read my post)
Just search Malossi White for the pictures of how too.
Then comes the icing on the cake using 27g Dr.Pulley sliders for the increased top end speed and better fuel consumption of freeways and open roads compared to stock figures.
Ok I also have other mods but there fine tuning and not needed unless your anal like me. lol

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!

Thanks for that bit of information. I'll definitely look into that.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 25, 2023 10:55 pm

GHM-PM wrote:
I enjoy reading about the experimentation for performance on the Silver Wing, but question the logic. Personally I find the machine was designed well for MY use. To make a 120 HP firebreathing monster out of one is funny since then the suspension, tires, wheels and forks would need to be replaced. I am not trying to belittle anyone just trying to understand why the initial purchase wasn't a sport bike? (Yamaha R6 or the like). Excuse me while I go put on my fire retardant underwear!!!  Laughing
I originally brought the swing because at first I was too lazy to learn how to manual shift. As I got better with bikes other people in my crew let me try their motorcycles which were manual shifts which I eventually kind of got the hang of and I love the speed but my problem is those sports bikes are too uncomfortable for long sit-downs. (My back is no good) the swing is very comfortable and appropriate for long rides as I've taken it across two states before. So I kind of want the perfect Goldilocks scenario where my current comfy scooter can be as fast as a decent motorcycle. And plus nothing beats the expression of when they see my scooter move faster than most of their bikes in my crew 🤣
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 26, 2023 7:39 am

I just wanted to add.
XDM:copyright: wrote:
GHM-PM wrote:
To make a 120 HP firebreathing monster out of one is funny since then the suspension, tires, wheels and forks would need to be replaced. :

Having fitted Hyperpro springs to the front and YSS shocks to the back, running on Michelin City Grip 2 tyres, all my big bike friends are amazed that I can undertake them in a corner.
They have also tried my Swing before and after the mods they are well impressed, If not a little staggered by It.
I guess at the end of the day It's down to the personal skills of the rider, and the confidence the bike gives the rider.

This has not been posted to start a bun fight or to degrade/belittle any ones skills, it's just my personal experiences in the real world with MY Swing.

Personally I am over the moon with the transformation and it has given some of my older friends food for thought!

My insurance company was happy with the mods, ref. the suspension upgrades and uprated discs and pads because the Swing is out of production so they know parts for us have to be after market.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 10, 2023 9:22 pm

Hi has any one try 32g slider or is it better to go with a 26g sliders ?
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 3:16 pm

Hi Larry, the answer depends a lot on what you want from your Swing.

Using Sliders brings one main benefit over rollers in your drive belt system, that being they give you a higher top speed over conventional rollers which allows you to use lighter weights to improve acceleration but not loose fuel consumption at Freeway/Motorway speeds.
And having tried 32gs sliders I can only compare it to leaving the hand brake on, being gaped by a cyclist at traffic lights lol.
But seriously go with the 26g Sliders if you want a bit more grunt off the line. Your consumption is completely dependant on your right hand.

Hope this helps.

Be safe, be seen!
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 3:33 pm

Thanks Johny C I may go with 26g I like speed on take off !
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeFri Aug 11, 2023 4:09 pm

"the RPMs versus the MPH doesn't seem to feel the same either, feels like it's taking more RPMs to get a higher speed than what I used to."

The above quote from the first entry in this thread seems most important to me. My scooter is commonly called "snake-bit" or a "lemon". My scooter will go about 1,000 miles +/- and then the clutch will start to slip. RPMs will go from the normal 5500 at GPS 70 mph and will settle in at 6,200 rpms. Always 6,200 and I know not why. The clutch burn procedure never works. I take the clutch apart and lightly sand the pads and all is well for about another 1K miles. I have replaced the entire clutch and still the problem persists. Anyway it sounds like you have developed some slipping.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 12, 2023 5:33 am

Hi 1Wingman1.

Couple of questions.
1. When you replaced the clutch did you also replace the clutch bell housing.(driven plate Item 1)
2. The clutch tension is controlled by driven plate Item 11
3. Are you running OEM rollers or after market Sliders.
acceleration feels different these days. Screen15
acceleration feels different these days. Screen16

Hope this helps.
Awaiting your reply.

Be safe, be seen!
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 12, 2023 7:16 pm

1. Clutch outer replaced
2. Shoes and small springs replaced
3 Item 11 large spring replaced (Honda)
4. Installed Malossi white spring with no detectable difference
5. Tried stock and Malossi belts
6. Replaced ball and needle bearings
7. Replaced dampers
8. Replaced all o-rings
9. Tried 24 and 26 gram sliders
10. Currently using stock rollers
11. Always install big spring by Honda instructions to get the bias correct

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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2023 1:46 pm

larry, the difference between 32g and 26g sliders is huge. It depends on what you wish to alter for your particular needs.

If you think you SW is lacking acceleration then lighter sliders/rollers would help but the topic of changing from OEM parts in the clutch department is a whole new world.

What is it you are looking to achieve?
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 14, 2023 2:01 pm

I have some 26g sliders coming I will see how they will do i thank the clutch should be fine It only has 6000 mi on it.Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 17, 2023 3:51 am

When reassembling the clutch friction pads, does anyone grease the pivot pins? Nothing shown or
menrioned in manual
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 17, 2023 6:44 am

No, most of the shelf high temperature greases will liquify, a clutch can reach temperatures in excess of 500F/260C in heavy traffic, more so in a hot day, etc. A "Blue" clutch bell/outer, wich is not uncommon, means temps over 550F/288C were reached. I've seen "Stefano Bonacasa" YouTube videos were he lightly coats/rubs pivot pins with high temperature "Anti-Seize", it will withstand the temps easily. Sorry for long/boring answer !! 🙄
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 17, 2023 7:15 am

Thanks for the info. Your answer was neither long or boring, - more well informed I thought.
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PostSubject: Re: acceleration feels different these days.   acceleration feels different these days. I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 17, 2023 6:14 pm

Replying to 1WINGMAN1.

sorry about the delay in responding.

Ok more questions. Clutch shoes and springs OEM Honda ? or after market.
Malossi White spring in place of Honda item 11 ?
You should feel and hear it rev higher for the same MPH, the spring holds the gearing lower over stock.
The reason we use sliders is because they give a higher gearing over rollers @ Freeway/Motorway speeds to offset fuel consumption of having a buzzy lower gearing set up.

Personally I think the OEM clutch is the Swings Achilles heal, the fact you can get it to "light up" in stock form says it all for me. Thankfully I decided to replace mine with a Malossi Fly clutch.
It's lighter than stock, has bigger contact shoes but will add 500rpm to your engage RPM, but then it just smoothly nails it.
So to recap I'm running 24g sliders with a Malossi White 17kgs contra spring and a Malossi Fly clutch set up. Not a clue what consumption is, but the Swings a lot of fun as a sleeper.

One final thought about your problem, after 1000mls there should be a visible maker on the front and back pully where the belt spends most of its time. The belt mark on the front(L/H) will be near the edge of the pulley, and the mark on the rear(R/H) will be at its base. Any rings on either pulley would indicate further investigation of the movable driven face guide rollers/ grease lube/actuation.
If everything looks normal but it does slip maybe try a Malossi or DrPulley clutch, either would be a lot better than stock.

Hope this helps

Be safe, be seen!
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