Questions - Full fuel tank drained out last night!

Full fuel tank spilled out last night!

I’ve only rode my 2006 SWing about 130 miles since I brought it home and got it on the road.

I rode about 40 miles yesterday. At about 20 miles I filled up the tank, and rode home.

As soon as I pulled in, gas came gushing out from the bottom of the SWing. The whole 4 gallons drained out.

We started pulling off the fairing parts to get a better look to see where exactly the gas was coming from, but we quickly ran out of daylight.

Two questions:

1) What fairing/ body work pieces need to be removed to get a good view of the fuel tank and surrounding areas?

2) Any ideas of likely causes? I’m assuming one of the 16 year old fuel lines let loose or ruptured on the ride home?

A friend said they noticed a few small drops when I left yesterday evening for the ride, and I didn’t calculate it but my fuel mileage seemed a lot lower than I expected, so I assume the leak was already developing when I left.

My psychic powers aren’t quite what the use to be, but I suspect that you’ve got a rust hole in the tank.

You can remove the side skirts and seat undercover to see most of the tank. There is a protective mat between the radiator and front of the tank so it’s kinda doubtful that a hole is there.

The fuel line sits above the tank so unless it only leaks while the ignition is ON, i.e. the pump is powered, the leak won’t be from a fuel line.

Given your last several posts you do lead a charmed life Brian.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

My psychic powers aren’t quite what the use to be, but I suspect that you’ve got a rust hole in the tank.

Ugh! Hope not!

Quote :

Given your last several posts you do lead a charmed life Brian.

LOL! You have no idea…I could write a book.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

My psychic powers aren’t quite what the use to be, but I suspect that you’ve got a rust hole in the tank.

You can remove the side skirts and seat undercover to see most of the tank. There is a protective mat between the radiator and front of the tank so it’s kinda doubtful that a hole is there.

The fuel line sits above the tank so unless it only leaks while the ignition is ON, i.e. the pump is powered, the leak won’t be from a fuel line.

Given your last several posts you do lead a charmed life Brian.

What’s your opinion of the fuel tank repair kits?

BrianInVA wrote:

What’s your opinion of the fuel tank repair kits?

I’m not familiar with a tank repair kit. But I suspect that to properly repair a leaking tank it should be removed. So if you are going to drop the tank then…

I also suspect that because it sit unused for several years “encouraged” the tank to develop some serious rust. In fact I’m kinda surprised that you haven’t had the wonky fuel gauge problem caused by deteriorated fuel.

No doubt a JB Weld, or some such, patch could be plastered on the outside of the tank. But if the interior is eaten away by rust then you’ll be addressing the matter again.

BTW have you located the leak yet?

old bike---once source of leak is verified, replace tank!

" What’s your opinion of the fuel tank repair kits? "
You really need to take a look and find the problem, before you start looking for a fix , a big leak like you describe is not normal, could be a broken return hose, siphoning tank dry ??. Repair/sealant kits are mostly for a small seepage, require special prep, are costly and may or not work !!
My 2ct.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

BTW have you located the leak yet?

Unfortunately I was out all day today. I hope to tear into it again tomorrow evening or Wednesday. But I already looked up tanks and found a few decent used ones on eBay if I need to go that route. Judging by how fast it drained out yesterday evening, I’m now hoping it’s just a bad fuel line. A pin hole or small rust hole wouldn’t drain out that fast, though a large rust hole isn’t out of the question.

zrx212 wrote:

a big leak like you describe is not normal, could be a broken return hose, siphoning tank dry

Good point, that’s the kinda input I was hoping for. I’m hoping that’s all it is.

I read through the service manual last night but didn’t find anything that specifically listed what I need to remove to see the fuel tank. Fortunately someone on one of the Facebook groups said, ‘remove the passenger footrests, both side panels and the footboards to access the fuel tank and pump.’

Does that sound right!? I’ll finally get back to tearing it down this evening. Homesteading chores intervened yesterday.

Found it. It’s definitely a hole, about a quarter inch across. I could easily stick a mini screwdriver through it:


Question is, should I try to patch it, or replace the whole tank?

So only about 1/3 of your gas leaked out? Can you image if the hole was in the bottom panel! YIKES!

There are shops that refurbish fuel tanks and I'm sure they could recondition this one too.  They are pros at fixing holes, cleaning and relining the interiors and sealing the exteriors.  They usually look like new when they are finished.

sonuvabug wrote:

So only about 1/3 of your gas leaked out? Can you image if the hole was in the bottom panel! YIKES!

There are shops that refurbish fuel tanks and I'm sure they could recondition this one too.  They are pros at fixing holes, cleaning and relining the interiors and sealing the exteriors.  They usually look like new when they are finished.

This hole IS on the very bottom of the tank, unfortunately. To the distal end of the left side of the tank, just above the fuel tank subframe. (Photo is taken from under the front of the tank.)

Gotcha ya ... your pics ARE from underneath. I've never had to do an exploratory in that area on either of my 2 SWings so the views are unfamiliar to me.  At least you have choices ... 1) a new tank 2) a DIY repair kit or 3) get a specialty shop to recondition the tank.

Decision ... decisions. Let us know what you decide and how things turn out.

The outside of the tank doesn’t look terribly rusty. I don’t know if it rusted from the inside due to sitting unused for five years with fuel in it, or what.

I’ll probably just drop the fuel tank subframe and try whatever is the best rated fuel tank patch system. If anyone has any input they’d like to share to steer me clear of that option, I’m all ears.

I've never tried this repair myself on any vehicle.  

However, it involves more than plugging the hole.  As I understand things, the inside of the tank surface has to be cleaned and re-sealed to avoid other issues like flaky rust bits getting into your fuel distribution system etc.

"The outside of the tank doesn’t look terribly rusty. I don’t know if it rusted from the inside due to sitting unused for five years with fuel in it, or what."
The sitting unused for 5 years part really changes the situation, the hole is just the tip of the iceberg, can it be fixed, probably, will it be a reliable or cheap fix, NO, your fuel system is probably contaminated with fine dust particles, IAC your fuel tank has to come out, looked at, cleaned, fuel filter and pump inspected, etc. Unless you have good road assistance insurance, not replacing the fuel tank, etc., would be a bad idea IMO. Ticking time bomb. I've have sent unavailable fuel tanks to be professionally sealed in the past, well over $300 dollars.

Unfortunately the chances we take when we buy used vehicles, especially if they sat unused.

zrx212 wrote:

I've have sent unavailable fuel tanks to be professionally sealed in the past, well over $300 dollars.

 Unfortunately the chances we take when we buy used vehicles, especially if they sat unused.

Then it looks like a used eBay SWing tank is my best (i.e., most affordable) bet. They can be had for $80-$125 plus shipping. I saved several listings when I started looking into this late Sunday night.

However, buying someone else’s used tank just runs the risk of getting another internally rusted out one, doesn’t it?

As far as repair goes, having my tank professionally repaired is going to be $$$.

There are kits to clean out and coat the tank properly, but none of them say they’ll fill a quarter inch hole, just weeping areas or pinholes.

So I guess I’d need to both patch the hole itself, AND then do the tank sealer kit?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000H9K4K0?tag=vecitiromantik-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&keywords=Fuel%20Tank%20Repair%20Kit

Ask the ebay seller for more pics, especially inside of tank if he did not post them, as specifically if the tank has internal rust and guarantees no leaks. Look for sellers that will accept returns, good feedback, etc Usually ebay is a crap shoot, but asking the questions and/or additional pics, usually avoids headaches.
I cannot recommend sealing a compromised/rusty tank.

The other option is a completely new tank. They’re around $300. Definitely a better option than having one professionally repaired.

At this time, I’ll probably patch my current tank, cross my fingers and keep my AAA Plus paid and up to date, and order a new tank to replace mine in late June or early July, after the expenses of the new tires and last week’s Honda shop repair bill are well behind me.

Having remembered your Introduction post, buying your Silver Wing from a seller right on the Chesapeake Bay and mentioning that it already had alloy pitting and corrosion on the mirror mounts gave me an inkling you would have other problems exacerbated by the salty sea air.

17510-MCT-010, $326 from Partzilla, $263 from Ron Ayers.

Ethanol is the problem bike sat and fuel absorbed a bit of water. Left side sat on kickstand and rusted away. Minor surface rust can be cleaned with muriatic acid cleans it up most tank repair kits use it.

Buy a used tank and start over. You were lucky all that fuel didn't leak while riding and spray on hot exhaust.

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

17510-MCT-010, $326 from Partzilla, $263 from Ron Ayers.

Thanks! (I still haven’t figured out Ron Ayers’ shipping costs. Every time I put in my location it fails to give me a shipping cost estimate.)

Has anyone ever tried Metal Rescue or Evapo-Rust to clean the rust from a fuel tank? There are a number of videos for each and both look very promising for fuel tank restoration.

BrianInVA wrote:

Thanks! (I still haven’t figured out Ron Ayers’ shipping costs. Every time I put in my location it fails to give me a shipping cost estimate.)

https://www.ronayers.com/

Their home page says Free Shipping on orders over $129.

Given the options and their associated costs, if it were me, I'd go for the new tank from Ron Ayers and sleep easy.

BrianInVA wrote:

Has anyone ever tried Metal Rescue or Evapo-Rust to clean the rust from a fuel tank? There are a number of videos for each and both look very promising for fuel tank restoration.

If you are considering on going that route, Kim that you actually need to have some remaining metal thickness to treat and to be structurally capable of holding fuel, etc., clearly you don't, another option is to weld repair the tank, as to cutting out rusted metal and welding in new metal, etc. Totally feasible since cosmetics are not a issue, an average body shop, welder or diy welder can do this easily. I've have weld repaired several car fuel tanks in my younger days.

Of course the weld repair is considering that most rust is at bottom area, again need to inspect to asses extent of rust damage.

Frankly I’m kinda stumped what else I need to remove prior to removing the tank itself.

I removed the subframe directly under the fuel tank.

Do I need to remove the dash body panel in order to remove the black body panel that constitutes the top half of the gas tank cap access?

Do I need to remove the entire front fairing to get at the two pieces noted above?

Any idea, anyone?

Certainly looks like you need to get access above the fuel cap as there is a bolt in there, plus the two lower bolts. I'd bite the bullet and strip all the front bodywork off, some of it has tabs that lock down on other parts. There's a bodywork removal flowchart in the service manual that gives the sequence.

Here’s a quote from Scooter’s post in April 2021 with a great tip for getting to that PITA top tank nut.

Fuel pump is out and it was a piece of cake because I did not pay no attention to the manual that says you have to remove damm near the whole body to get tank out. I just removed the middle cover and bottom cover and little frame. Then I removed the gas cap and put a large roll of duct tape under the panel to lift it far enough so I could get an open end 12MM wrench in there to remove the top bolt. The other two bolts are down on the bottom. took me maybe 25 minutes total to get tank out!!

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:

Here’s a quote from Scooter’s post in April 2021 with a great tip for getting to that PITA top tank nut.

Fuel pump is out and it was a piece of cake because I did not pay no attention to the manual that says you have to remove damm near the whole body to get tank out. I just removed the middle cover and bottom cover and little frame. Then I removed the gas cap and put a large roll of duct tape under the panel to lift it far enough so I could get an open end 12MM wrench in there to remove the top bolt. The other two bolts are down on the bottom. took me maybe 25 minutes total to get tank out!!

Awesome tip, thank you!!

Terry Smith wrote:

Certainly looks like you need to get access above the fuel cap as there is a bolt in there, plus the two lower bolts. I'd bite the bullet and strip all the front bodywork off, some of it has tabs that lock down on other parts. There's a bodywork removal flowchart in the service manual that gives the sequence.

I’m still getting acquainted with the Service Manual. For now, I’m just looking at the pdf on my iPhone Kindle, which isn’t optimal, but since you posted that second image, I’ve found the rest of the instructions to remove the tank, I can enlarge it on my iPhone screen, and it’s not as intimidating as I feared.

This hole is right where the lowest part of the tank is when my SWing is on its side stand. Probably how it was stored for at least part of the time it wasn’t ridden by the previous owner for four or five years. I’m assuming it was stored empty and condensation formed inside the tank, leading to rust at the bottom.

I decided for now to use a $15 JB Weld fuel tank patch kit from the local O’Reilly’s. It was a piece of fiberglass cloth and two part epoxy.

Good news - I put it on in two layers, the first smaller than the second. It went on really well and really easy and after curing it’s rock hard and holding tight.

Bad news - on the other side of the bottom of the tank I noticed a moist spot, the lowest point at the bottom of the tank when it’s on the center stand, so I wiped it off. It was definitely gas. And it came right back, so I kept wiping off the area so I could tell where it was coming from.

As I kept wiping, I found a seeping area, and as I wiped more, another full blown 1/4” hole opened up.

So the entire bottom of the tank might be shot.

Ugh.

But it was worth a $15 try.

Looks like I’ll be tearing the tank down after all. Once I get a good view of the bottom of the tank through the fuel pump access, I’ll know better whether this tank can be salvaged (doubtful) or if I’ll be ordering a whole new tank, sooner rather than later.

Despite the problems I’m having, including needing the forks rebuilt, new tires, and now the holes in the gas tank, I really like this maxi scooter!

I knew when I bought it for $2500 it had sat in an area with sea air for a number of years, so it would likely need “some” work. I just didn’t anticipate this much.

I've coated moped gas tanks with that Kreem? stuff, and another brand I can't recall. I only recommend it for rusted tanks without large holes. Pinholes are okay but I don't like using it when any larger leak is found. If you decide to coat the inside of a tank read the instructions 3 times before starting the procedure. One mistake and your done!

If a used tank is around $100, give or take $20, I'd seriously consider going new if you plan on keeping the scoot. And don't buy a used tank and then coat if, that would be crazy. Good luck on getting it sorted!

sc00ter wrote:

If a used tank is around $100, give or take $20, I'd seriously consider going new if you plan on keeping the scoot. And don't buy a used tank and then coat if, that would be crazy. Good luck on getting it sorted!

Thanks sc00ter. A lot of the tank sealing kits are around $100 themselves. A used tank is going to be $120 including shipping, minimum.

Ron Ayers has the OEM tank for $263, including shipping, so since my tank doesn’t seem to be salvageable, that’s the route I’m going to go.

That's what I would do too. Fix it with new and move on.  What is the saying ... something like: "spend once ... cry once".

The new tank finally arrived tonight. I hadn’t realized it when I ordered it, but the entire fuel pump assembly was included with the new tank and already assembled. That’s going to make the replacement a lot more straightforward.

" The new tank finally arrived tonight....."  good to read that, make sure is clean and take a look inside, check fuel pump, screen/filter, etc., as in remove from tank, test pump "briefly", etc. You want to check those things before installing, Good luck

zrx212 wrote:

test pump "briefly", etc. You want to check those things before installing, Good luck

Just plug in the fuel pump wiring assembly and turn on the ignition and listen for the fuel pump, I assume?

" Just plug in the fuel pump wiring assembly and turn on the ignition and listen for the fuel pump, I assume? "

Yes, also test with fuel before you close/restore access, start engine, check for leaks, etc.

I finally got the old tank down and opened up. 95% of the inside of the tank is rust free. There’s a deep rust spot about 4” across at its widest point and 6” long with multiple holes and pinholes and I can see the small gray area where the two part epoxy came through the original hole I repaired. I have a flashlight behind the second big hole so it’s easier to see.

Judging by the condition of the old fuel pump, filter etc assembly, I’m glad the new tank already has those new parts installed.

The first hole, where the gray two part epoxy come through to the inside of the tank. If this had been the only hole, the fuel tank repair kit would have worked. It’s rock solid.

$ 263 that's not a bad price for a complete tank and new pump-sending unit.
That tank sat for a while with water in bottom. New pump and you're back on the road. Ride it and enjoy. Ethanol destroys fuel systems without proper maintenance.

Always fill your tank and add stabilizer if it's going to sit for months in off season, I never had a problem doing this. My 2005 FJR the tank is rust free pushing 18 years bought in late 2004. E/0 fuel is nice but always add stabilizer anyway.

I finally (FINALLY!) got my 2006 back together enough to start it up today. I had installed the new fuel tank last week, was away for a few days, then just got all the fuel lines and electrical hooked back up today and put gas in it. It started on the second try!

This might not seem like much to folks who regularly do their own work. But I’ve never attempted this level of wrenching on a bike. I had to learn all of this from scratch, reading the Service Manual, watching YouTube videos, and asking questions here and on the Facebook Silverwing group. (Plus I had four strokes six years ago so I’m forced to work VERY slowly and take A LOT of breaks.)

I was simply thrilled when it started up so easily this afternoon. Hopefully I’ll get the rest of it buttoned up tomorrow and be able to take it for a ride Thursday.

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/n0mRt54JwI0?feature=share

Since I had everything torn down, I also changed everything I could while waiting for various parts and tools I didn’t have, including motor oil and filter, the air filter, changed front and rear brake reservoir fluid, the final drive oil, new belt and 26g Dr. Pulley sliders, changed the antifreeze and installed a 12v cigarette lighter outlet in the locking glove compartment.

Your YouTube link requires us to sign in to view your video. Not sure if you have to give us guest credentials?

Easyrider wrote:

Your YouTube link requires us to sign in to view your video. Not sure if you have to give us guest credentials?

Hmmm… does this work?

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/n0mRt54JwI0

(It’s just a 20 second video of it running/ revving.)