Honda Silver Wing Scooter Forum

Welcome to the Silverwing 600 Forum. We ask that you be polite and also GIVE US THE COURTESY of introducing yourself on your 1st post. The members are friendly and helpful so just have fun.
 
HomeHome  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  Log inLog in  
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 
Rechercher Advanced Search
Latest topics
» That doesn't look right - clutch wear
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby john grinsel Today at 11:29 am

» Dash Panel Seperation
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby Cosmic_Jumper Today at 10:33 am

» Attempted my first ever day trip on a FJS4002
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby GHM-PM Today at 7:40 am

» What did you do to your SW today.
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby Cosmic_Jumper Yesterday at 8:42 pm

» PA. Bucket List.
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby bikehiker Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:12 pm

» Turn signal fuse keeps blowing
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby Kunamika Hopper Tue Aug 09, 2022 10:32 am

» Final oil Drive
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby BrianInVA Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:25 am

» New guy - help with part number
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby BrianInVA Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:22 pm

» New member from Seattle area
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby Dale N. Sat Aug 06, 2022 5:56 pm

» At 83 maybe taking a year off from riding
Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeby MUCHoldERwingguy Fri Aug 05, 2022 7:24 am

Navigation
 Portal
 Index
 Memberlist
 Profile
 FAQ
 Search
free forum
 
 

 Beware...spacers?

Go down 
+8
Cosmic_Jumper
Dale N.
john grinsel
Meldrew
Mech 1 twa
Michel Vachon
Terry Smith
Loosemarbles
12 posters
AuthorMessage
Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1036
Location : South East England
Points : 3294
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 7:49 am

Took my front wheel to my local tyre fitter this morning for new tyre which they supplied. Told to go back after a couple of hours to collect.

Arrived as told (just before closing) to collect my wheel only to be told they couldn't balance it because I hadn't supplied the axle spacers....WHAT?

Surely it's not too much to expect them to have called me so that I could go back earlier with the spacers and have my wheel back on the bike???

Who employs such F***wits? Now I have to go back on Monday with the spacers and get my wheel back.

I don't recall having to supply the spacers in the past but hey...I won't be using this tyre company again.  GGGGRRRRRRRR!

Rant over Mad
Back to top Go down
Online
Terry Smith
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
Terry Smith


Number of posts : 331
Age : 57
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 1238
Registration date : 2020-03-11

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 6:48 pm

Actually I don't think any of that is correct. The spacers normally rub against the oil seals on the bearing and cause drag which you don't want when balancing. Normal practice is to use cones on the balancer shaft which bear on the bearing inners only. The only reason I can think of to need the spacers is if the cones could not reach far enough into the brake side of the wheel. Doesn't seem likely (it's a dirty big hole in there) but who knows?

Back to top Go down
Michel Vachon
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 141
Age : 65
Location : Granby, Québec, Canada
Points : 1382
Registration date : 2019-03-26

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 9:57 pm

Loosemarbles,

Try dynabeads for balancing .. You will never need to balance again. I am selling that product for over 20 years and all my customers are more then happy... I don't know if it is available in England ... Here is the link : http://www.innovativebalancing.com/
When you will bring your wheel to have your tire change tell them to take good care of the little beads in your tire and transfert them into your new tire. (easy to do with a spray paint cap)

Michel
Back to top Go down
Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa


Number of posts : 1290
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 3797
Registration date : 2016-01-02

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 26, 2020 10:47 pm

What Terry said. Wheels on SW are a bit different than most motorcycles. Rear for sure.
Back to top Go down
Meldrew
Visiting Curmudgeon
Meldrew


Number of posts : 3996
Location : York, North Yorkshire, England UK
Points : 8388
Registration date : 2010-11-16

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2020 2:26 am

Michel Vachon wrote:
Loosemarbles, Try dynabeads for balancing .. You will never need to balance again.

Hmm.... if you had a choice between putting polystyrene balance beads or a puncture sealant in your tyres which the manufacturers also claim help to balance the wheels, which product would you choose? scratch

Myself, I'd choose puncture sealant.
Back to top Go down
john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel


Number of posts : 3217
Age : 83
Points : 8523
Registration date : 2009-08-18

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2020 8:09 am

I use "Ride On" seems to balance well and may seals small holes in thread area. Not cheap, about $15 a wheel.
Back to top Go down
Online
Dale N.
Site Admin
Dale N.


Number of posts : 1888
Age : 76
Location : Princeton, MN
Points : 5118
Registration date : 2014-02-13

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2020 12:03 pm

I also use Ride On in my tires. It seems to work good with no problems. Just follow the directions on the bottle.
Back to top Go down
Michel Vachon
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 141
Age : 65
Location : Granby, Québec, Canada
Points : 1382
Registration date : 2019-03-26

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2020 5:08 pm

Meldrew wrote:
Michel Vachon wrote:
Loosemarbles, Try dynabeads for balancing .. You will never need to balance again.

Hmm.... if you had a choice between putting polystyrene balance beads or a puncture sealant in your tyres which the manufacturers also claim help to balance the wheels, which product would you choose? scratch

Myself, I'd choose puncture sealant.

I never used puncture sealer so I can't say anything about it. (Dyna beads are ceramic...)

Michel
Back to top Go down
Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1036
Location : South East England
Points : 3294
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2020 10:41 pm

Thanks everyone, I've never heard of these Dynabeads but Terry's comments may explain something: During the first MOT I had after buying my SW it failed on the brake-side bearing moving inside the hub. ( I had the same problem with my CX650 rear wheel some years ago). Could the spacers have damaged the bearing during previous balancing?....makes you think!

I bought a new wheel from the dealer who put on a new tyre and balanced it with weights. I've been riding it since then and now the tyre is worn out, hence the new one.

This tyre shop obviously doesn’t have the kit to do this job….using cones I mean…so I’m going to collect the wheel tomorrow and try out these Dynabeads. I never did like the look of those nasty weights.

Thanks again all, I’m glad I had my little rant now cat
Back to top Go down
Online
Terry Smith
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
Terry Smith


Number of posts : 331
Age : 57
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 1238
Registration date : 2020-03-11

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 27, 2020 10:50 pm

Loosemarbles wrote:
Could the spacers have damaged the bearing during previous balancing?....makes you think!

Wheel bearings just wear out with time, probably depends on the conditions that you ride and store the bike in as well. The bearing inner then gets loose and consequently your wheel gets a bit loose as well.

When a wheel is static balanced, there is very little force or movement involved, the only purpose of cones is to centre the bearing on the shaft so the wheel is concentric and perpendicular to it. The cones are just slid into place by hand and locked there against the shaft.
Back to top Go down
Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1036
Location : South East England
Points : 3294
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28, 2020 1:05 am

When I say the bearing was moving inside the hub I mean that if you turned the wheel over the entire bearing simply dropped out. The bearing was fine, it was the hub which was wrecked!

I'll have a chat with the guy who did the Mot, he rides bikes and may have the cone device in his workshop but I still like the dynabeads option.
Back to top Go down
Online
Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1036
Location : South East England
Points : 3294
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28, 2020 6:52 am

Well, back from the tyre shop with my wheel. He wanted me to wait for an hour while they balanced it and I figured enough is enough, got a refund for the balancing (£10) and came home. The guy who was doing the job has an attitude problem and, I suspect, an inferiority complex.

I'd like to try to balance the wheel myself. Static balancing as per the video above seems reasonable so here goes...wish me luck! Shocked
Back to top Go down
Online
Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4192
Age : 79
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 9660
Registration date : 2009-06-12

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28, 2020 8:43 am

Loosemarbles wrote:
When I say the bearing was moving inside the hub I mean that if you turned the wheel over the entire bearing simply dropped out. The bearing was fine, it was the hub which was wrecked! [snip]

My 2¢:
You know, you can quite probably take that wheel to a machinists to have that bearing pocket knurled so that the bearing will fit the wheel properly.

That’s gotta be less expensive than replacing the wheel.
Back to top Go down
Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1036
Location : South East England
Points : 3294
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28, 2020 8:50 am

Thanks Tim but I replaced that wheel at the time and that's the one I have now, it's still as good as new.

I'm reading up on the Dyna beads option:

"They can remove imbalance as a tire travels forward and moves up and down. However, that strength illuminates Dyna Beads' weakness: they only work in the vertical. ... For large tires, or tires with a significant amount of radial run-out, the beads can lessen the amount of physical weights installed in the wheel".

These are the words from someone who tested them and now I'm confused. What if there is lateral imbalance?

Still thinking.....
Back to top Go down
Online
Michel Vachon
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 141
Age : 65
Location : Granby, Québec, Canada
Points : 1382
Registration date : 2019-03-26

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28, 2020 9:26 am

Loosemarbles wrote:


These are the words from someone who tested them and now I'm confused. What if there is lateral imbalance?

Still thinking.....

Ask that same person how they balance a lateral imbalance !!! Wost of the time weight are stick on the center of the rim or weight are install on the spoke for other wheels so...
I would say lateral imbalance on motorcycle wheel is close to nothing because our wheel are narrow.... but if you have a real wide wheel and tire ok... But you need the machine to do such a work...

If your wheel is bent from lateral or you have a bad wheel bearing I would say this is a problem to fix before trying to balancing the wheel/tire.

For my part, so far so good with Dyna beads and even on Harley wheels that I have put some.

Michel
Back to top Go down
steve_h80
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert



Number of posts : 870
Location : Teesdale, UK
Points : 3222
Registration date : 2016-05-15

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28, 2020 1:25 pm

When I've had tyres replaced the mechanic did comment that he couldn't do a proper balance. His opinion was that these small wheels rarely give a balance issues but to come back if I had a problem.
Several tyres later I've had no wheel balance problems at all, having said that I've not had the bike much over 90mph so concur there may be issues at high speeds. Perhaps I've just been lucky with the tyres I've used.

On the other matter I have used puncture seal gloop before, and it does work, but some brands tend to strip coatings from cast wheels. I still use gloop in inner tubes, but the only tubed wheels I have these days are on my mtb.
Back to top Go down
Terry Smith
Touring Scooter Rider
Touring Scooter Rider
Terry Smith


Number of posts : 331
Age : 57
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 1238
Registration date : 2020-03-11

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 28, 2020 4:04 pm

steve_h80 wrote:
When I've had tyres replaced the mechanic did comment that he couldn't do a proper balance. His opinion was that these small wheels rarely give a balance issues but to come back if I had a problem.
Several tyres later I've had no wheel balance problems at all, having said that I've not had the bike much over 90mph so concur there may be issues at high speeds. Perhaps I've just been lucky with the tyres I've used.
.

My Swing (or maybe its me) is definitely sensitive to front wheel balance; I can feel the shudder through the bars at around 100-120km/hr if the balance is off.
Back to top Go down
Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1036
Location : South East England
Points : 3294
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 29, 2020 1:56 am

Well, like most topics of any kind these days nothing has a yes or no answer. However, using my basic school physics education along with 40 plus years of life learning, I would say that any object which rotates about an axis needs to be balanced in both planes, more so at high speeds.

Discussion is good and it is why I love this forum. We can share knowledge, experience and advice but who is right and who is wrong?

Take a close look at a helicopter rotor assembly.... now there's a balancing act for you thumbs up
Back to top Go down
Online
Dave Weller
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 78
Location : Chatham Kent UK
Points : 4018
Registration date : 2011-11-09

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 04, 2020 6:48 am

I use Watling Tyres in Gillingham Kent for my work, they have treated me very well and over the years every tyre change has been in balance, I always take out the spacers and put them back on the hub spindle so they don't get lost.
Back to top Go down
oldwingguy
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 1936
Location : Hocking Hills U.S.A.
Points : 4528
Registration date : 2016-01-29

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 04, 2020 7:20 am

Loosemarbles said :

I would say that any object which rotates about an axis needs to be balanced in both planes, more so at high speeds.

Discussion is good and it is why I love this forum. We can share knowledge, experience and advice but who is right and who is wrong?

Take a close look at a helicopter rotor assembly.... now there's a balancing act for you.

I said :

You have that right, now imagine something and it's big and fast where the weights are always shifting around and where a lot leave and never come back then a little does come back but not in the same place at the same weight, now that's a balancing act Smile

Back to top Go down
Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Loosemarbles


Number of posts : 1036
Location : South East England
Points : 3294
Registration date : 2016-10-01

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeSun Oct 04, 2020 5:21 pm

I called TPS Motor Cycles in Polegate that same day. He told me to take the wheel over straight away. He balanced it while I waited, 5 minutes. I'll be going there in future.
Back to top Go down
Online
Murf
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 144
Location : NW Florida
Points : 2092
Registration date : 2017-04-19

Beware...spacers? Empty
PostSubject: Re: Beware...spacers?   Beware...spacers? I_icon_minitimeMon Oct 05, 2020 8:41 am

I went to a scooter mechanic shop to have my wheels balanced they had all the right tools. Yes my weights are on the outside of the rim.
Back to top Go down
 
Beware...spacers?
Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Wing Mirror Spacers
» Miscreants beware!
» Beware of www.majestyusa.com site
» Beware of ordering from Italy
» Beware the evil twin you may now be.

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Honda Silver Wing Scooter Forum :: Honda Silver Wing :: Silver Wing Topics-
Jump to: