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PeteP
Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04, 2020 6:36 pm

I was wondering if RaceTech makes an emulator that will fit on Swing and if it made any difference. I used them on an other motorcycle that I had and it made all the difference in the world to dampening and handling. I’d like to do the same on Honda if I can.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04, 2020 7:38 pm

Yes they make them for SW.  Part #FEGV S3801  $179.  It's on their site.  I've been pondering them and one or two others here as well.  They also have springs of varying rates.

I have never tried them but from your past experience with them can't make it worse.
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PeteP
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 04, 2020 8:11 pm

Thanks for the the part# and info. I’ll check it out and if I do go that route I’ll let everyone know. They take some work to drill out the damper rod and countersink the holes but I knew after my first ride I had done the right thing.
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 05, 2020 4:34 am

I'm one of the fools thinking about doing this. I enjoy riding my Swing but the fork compliance on bumpy roads is pretty poor. I've got some new springs on the way but I think the fault lies in the damper rod. Having well setup cartridge forks in my "proper" bikes just highlights the deficiency of the 600. I just enjoyed an 800km day of 100% twisty bumpy roads on my ST1300, and the supension on that just eats bumps, the only constraint on corner speed is running out of ground clearance.
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PeteP
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2020 9:36 pm

Terry,
I too find the damping on the Swing horrible. When I did my front end work I got a RaceTech kit with the springs and the Gold Emulators. As I recall I used the blue spring on the Emulators. I bought a nice countersink and added four holes to the damper rods. I know they are different bikes but the process is the same for any bike without an adjustable front fork. I think it did more for bike by itself even though I used new Progressive Shocks on the back. It never bottomed out again and smoothed out even the roughest roads. Take it for it’s worth.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2020 10:16 pm

629 miles in last two days and on some bumpy back roads good fork-shock combo makes it so much better as far as fatigue after long hours.   I'm not sure if I'll try install myself or have a good shop do it.  

My FJR 1300 has a great fork but shock was harsh a Wilbers shock made a huge difference.  

Now if I had some real cash  Fork up grade Wilbers out back.      Yeah it's a scooter.
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 07, 2020 10:49 pm

PeteP wrote:
Terry,
I too find the damping on the Swing horrible. When I did my front end work I got a RaceTech kit with the springs and the Gold Emulators. As I recall I used the blue spring on the Emulators. I bought a nice countersink and added four holes to the damper rods. I know they are different bikes but the process is the same for any bike without an adjustable front fork. I think it did more for bike by itself even though I used new Progressive Shocks on the back. It never bottomed out again and smoothed out even the roughest roads. Take it for it’s worth.

I've spent quite a bit of money with RaceTech over the years, I fitted Emulators, Progressive Springs and a Fox Shock in my 1986 VFR700 back in the day, and have never been disappointed with the investments that I made. Suspension upgrades pay off every time you ride, and IMHO make the bike safer as well.  My other current bikes are a 1997 VTR1000F with 0.85kg/mm fork springs and Gold Valves in compression and rebound, plus an Ohlins shock in the rear. I also own an ST1300 which has 1.0kg/mm fork springs, Gold Valves in comp and rebound and a Nitron shock. In the case of the VTR, the suspension work probably added 50% to the cost of the bike (it was very cheap!) but transformed it.

Thanks for your comments regarding the Emulator setup that you have used. My RT springs ought to be here this week so I'll give those a go first, but I'm leaning heavily towards a follow-up with Emulators. Fortunately I am very comfortable with working on my bikes.

RaceTech Fork Emulators Img_3910
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 25, 2020 5:46 pm

I've now installed the Emulators and 0.85kg/mm fork springs. I left out all spacers/washers as that spring and emulator combination sits proud of the fork by about 3mm, so with the cap installed there is plenty of preload. The sag sits at around 35mm.

I followed RT's advice and drilled out the damper rods, enlarging the 4 x original 6mm holes to 8mm, and adding another two 8mm holes. I have tried 10, 15 and now 20W oil, going up as the rebound damping remains a bit light. I set the oil level at 130mm as per RT's instructions and I used the blue spring at 2.5 turns preload on the emulator.

I'm waiting on some replacement piston rings for the damper rod as I suspect some of the lack of rebound is due to wear in these parts.

The ride is night and day different to stock. Where previously the fork felt jittery on bumps, it now feels plush but still nicely controlled, and the steering is much calmer at speed than it was.

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PeteP
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeWed Nov 25, 2020 9:26 pm

Terry,
Thanks for the write up on going to Race Tech springs and emulators. I still haven’t given up on the idea but with the weather getting colder I’ll have to put it off for now. I don’t have a garage to work in so I have to do all my work outside. Still it’s on my to do list. I would like my Swing to also have a smoother and quieter ride.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 26, 2020 9:04 pm

Thanks for sharing RT results keep us posted. I'm still interested in these even if I need new RT springs and remove Hyper Pro . Less than $400 US .

That's a huge difference in oil weight 10-20. I'm looking for night and day to stiff on compression. Post part numbers of what you replaced please. Summer down under enjoy. sunny sunny
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 26, 2020 9:16 pm

The only parts needed for this are the springs and the emulators plus the oil of course. You posted the correct part number for the emulators above (FEGV S3801) and the springs are FRSP-S323485 (where the 85 refers to 0.85kg/mm rate). I purchased both from OEM Cycles, US$136 for emulators and $109 for springs, plus freight.

You'll need to undo the 8mm hex bolt in the fork leg to remove the damper rod, this needs to be drilled out with an 8mm bit to create 6 holes in each (4 x 6mm is the standard arrangement), then the holes need to be de-swarfed (used my Dremel for that). Swarf residue would be very bad for bushings and seals. Drilling out the compression damping holes on the damper rod takes away the harshness (port area goes from 113mm2 to 301mm2); the emulator has a sping-controlled pop-off valve that allows for restriction for control but free-flow when a big bump comes along. You can tune that pop-off by changing the spring (different rates are supplied) and the amount of preload on it.

The photos show the standard damper rod before mods, the compression holes are on the bottom and the small hole is the rebound port. The emulator is shown partly disassembled with the pop-off plate and spring removed. The four small holes are the compression ports.

I used no spacers or washers; the emulator drops into the fork leg and sits directly on the top of the damper rod, the spring goes in next, then the fork cap.
RaceTech Fork Emulators Img_1611
RaceTech Fork Emulators Img_e110
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 26, 2020 9:25 pm

I'm waiting on some replacement piston rings for the damper rod as I suspect some of the lack of rebound is due to wear in these parts.

Are you replacing damping rod seals? Worn, oil is bypassing these?
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 26, 2020 10:04 pm

Mech 1 twa wrote:
I'm waiting on some replacement piston rings for the damper rod as I suspect some of the lack of rebound is due to wear in these parts.

Are you replacing damping rod seals?  Worn, oil is bypassing these?

Yes I am doing this. I did a quick check by removing the piston ring and slipping that into the fork; the ring end gap was about 3 mm; that is quite similar to the size of the rebound port in the damper rod, so I suspect it is allowing too much flow to bypass the damper rod, hence insufficient rebound damping. It's a cheap part easily swapped out so worthwhile changing. I have no idea whether they are like this from new or my rings are worn, bike has had 70,000km of abuse and as received the forks were very nasty inside.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeThu Nov 26, 2020 10:26 pm

3 MM that's a lot of wear. Worn for sure. Keep posting. Never had that apart but sounds excessive.
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DTWing
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeFri Jul 23, 2021 9:52 am

I'm curious how putting new damper seal helped with the rebound. Is there any update?
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeSat Jul 24, 2021 8:17 pm

I did not have much success with this. The forks still had little rebound, and that was up to 20W oil as well.  I sold the bike a few months back.  A suspension expert I spoke to suggested wear between the check valve in the fork tube and the damper rod was probably the cause but there's no easy solution for that.
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DTWing
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 26, 2021 8:17 am

Thanks for that update, Terry. I did this on my previous bike, Honda PC800, and found similar thing. I even thought of plugging up the rebound hole with a set screw.

I love the ride of my Wing with aerohawk on the seat and was hoping I could make the front fork behave too. So I read this thread with great interest.
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeMon Jul 26, 2021 4:46 pm

Had I kept the bike, my next plan was to install a set of cartridge dampers from another bike. I've done this before on a ST1100 and that worked out really well. The only trick with the Swing is that the fork is pretty short so there would have been a bit of fiddling to get the damper rod length right, but I did confirm that the dampers I had (from a VFR800) had the top-out springs in the right place, so it would have been a matter of shortening the shaft, re-threading the end, and fitting a threaded fork cap to bolt to. You can buy off-the-shelf cartridges if your pockets are deep enough.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 27, 2021 8:52 am

Terry Smith wrote:
I did not have much success with this. The forks still had little rebound, and that was up to 20W oil as well.  I sold the bike a few months back.  A suspension expert I spoke to suggested wear between the check valve in the fork tube and the damper rod was probably the cause but there's no easy solution for that.

Hey Terry, just curious here. Given these 2nd thoughts do you feel that the fork emulators upgrade was worth it? Or maybe just going to Hyperpro springs and heavier oil would be a cost effective solution?
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: RaceTech Fork Emulators   RaceTech Fork Emulators I_icon_minitimeTue Jul 27, 2021 4:33 pm

The biggest benefit from the emulators for me was the big reduction in compression forces on bumps; the standard forks (on my bike at least) transmitted a lot of shock when hitting bumps, even with light oil. The modification to the damper rod and installation of emulators got rid of most of that, so yes on balance it was a good investment.
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