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 I found where my electricity went!

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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 197
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 425
Registration date : 2020-03-11

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10, 2020 11:03 pm

The slow boat from China finally arrived with my replacement alternator, so I got stuck in to the job of the change-out.

First up was removal of the right footrest and side skirt, then drained the oil and removed the filter after warming the engine. No nasty surprises in the oil screen, just small black particles (non metallic). The source of these was easy to see when the alternator came off...

Moved on to the exhaust, the studs nuts came off easily, the bolt into the engine cases was seized and came out with some effort with some of the case material attached to the first 4mm of thread. I cleaned the bolt and the hole with a tap and die.

Next up was the swingarm torx bolts, and I removed the brake calipers and their hose clips to free up some space around the alternator.

The alternator bolts came out nicely, and while I was prepared for a fight with the gasket, the cover prised off easily (prising point top rear). I put all the removed bolts in a piece of cardboard on which I had drawn the cover and punched some holes for the bolts; nice and easy come re-install time.

The alternator was nasty; three coils were encased in burnt insulation and clearly toasted. The alternator and cable stay removed easily, and I started cleaning up the gasket surfaces and the case generally. I checked that the oil cooling jet for the alternator was clear and flowing.

I was a little concerned that my cheap Chinese alternator had a slightly too long cable (or the grommet was too far along the wires) leaving free wires inside the case. I opted to fold the cables over and secure them with a cable tie; there looks to be ample space around the cable so I think this will be OK.

Smeared on some gasket sealant (especially around the troublesome grommets), made sure the dowels and o-ring were in place, and pressed it all back together. Actually much easier than I expected. Torqued the case bolts up gently, put the swingarm and brakes back on, then back to the exhaust. I had new exhaust gaskets in hand, the old ones were a bit tough to pick out, then I slighlty ovalled the new gaskets so they would hold in the ports as a press-fit. There's no torque specified for the exhaust stud nuts so I went by feel as the new gaskets compressed.

Refitted the oil drain and filter and added some of Mr Motul's liquid gold, said a prayer to the God of Lost 10mm Sockets, and pressed the start button. My voltmeter instantly showed a very happy steady 14.5V Hooray! And hopefully no more oil leaks.

My Silverwing is no longer tethered to the charger in the Man Cave, and we can now roam free (if you ignore taxes...). All up I'd estimate about a 3 hour job.

Wish me (and my new alternator) luck!I found where my electricity went! Img_1418
I found where my electricity went! Img_1417I found where my electricity went! Img_1419


Last edited by Terry Smith on Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3505
Age : 77
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 8186
Registration date : 2009-06-12

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 10, 2020 11:35 pm

Congratulations Terry.

While I’ve replaced a couple of SW alternators can you please refresh my memory and explain where the “oil cooling jet for the alternator” is located.
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 197
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 425
Registration date : 2020-03-11

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 1:08 am

Thanks Tim

The oil cooling jet comes from the crankcases through the o-ringed dowel just below the alternator, passes through the case behind the alternator, and exits through a tiny port (1mm dia) adjacent to the top of the alternator. In my burnt alternator pic, the inlet from the case is at about 2 o'clock, you can see the cast tube running diagonally across the cavity and then the jet is just visible at 9 o'clock between the coils. I squirted brake parts cleaner into the inlet and verified a jet coming out, just in case a blockage was part of the failure.


Last edited by Terry Smith on Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Michel Vachon
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider


Number of posts : 81
Age : 63
Location : Granby, Québec, Canada
Points : 641
Registration date : 2019-03-26

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PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 7:12 am

Hi Terry,

Nice job and thanks for your explanations all along the job...

Michel
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 932
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 2740
Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 7:57 pm

Great photos and happy it's running . Extra crispy for sure on that stator.

I have the same volt meter but in blue I've never seen 14.5 volts mostly 14.1-2 at most but it's not wired directly from battery just tapped it on the right brake lever switch.
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 197
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 425
Registration date : 2020-03-11

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 8:51 pm

My VM is oplugged into the 12V accessory port in the glovebox; that in turn is on its own circuit wired constant-on to the battery through the fusebox. 14-odd volts is pretty typical for a good charging system. I also think my VM is a little optimistic (maybe 0.1V) compared to my DMM.

I'm planning on wiring in a switched relay so the circuit is only active when the ignition is on.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 932
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 2740
Registration date : 2016-01-02

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 11, 2020 9:19 pm

I found where my electricity went! Img_2054

It's just a key on mileage photo. Volt meter works very good yeah a little off.

It's been a good Corona year so far over 5k with some more Summer yet to go.
26k something now. Ride it.
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru


Number of posts : 2617
Age : 77
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 6844
Registration date : 2009-07-17

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 12:16 am

One thing that I ran into on a couple of Goldwings was shorted diodes. Those are there to convert the AC from the alternator into the DC the bike needs. If one or more of the diodes are shorted it can let the smoke out of the alternator coils.

All technicians know that if the smoke gets out of component it won't work. So it's always a good idea to check those when you're in that area. I still have an old oscilloscope so I can look at the DC trace to see if there is any parasitic AC riding on the line. That's a good indication a diode is faulty..


Last edited by exavid on Sun Aug 16, 2020 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 197
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 425
Registration date : 2020-03-11

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 1:58 am

Thanks exavid, I did previously do a check on the RR using the guide from Electrosport; from this I determined that the RR was healthy but the alternator was the problem. I'm happy to report that the RR seems to be doing a fine job of rectifying the 3-ph AC into a steady 14.5V DC.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3505
Age : 77
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 8186
Registration date : 2009-06-12

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 12:38 pm

Getting off into the weeds here but here’s a link to an earlier forum conversation wherein the OP posits that the OEM Regulator/Rectifier can be upgraded. While I might be going off on a further tangent, by extension doesn’t this suggest that most 5-wire R/R’s are interchangeable —notwithstanding the mounting.

https://www.silverwing600.com/t9563-regulator-rectifier-upgrade*

*Also an excellent explainer of charging system operation by the OP about 3/4 down the topic.
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 197
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 425
Registration date : 2020-03-11

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 12, 2020 11:10 pm

Thanks for that link Tim, very interesting reading. AFAIK all RRs do basically the same thing, take in 3 phase AC, rectify that to DC and regulate the output to about 14.5V.

I can offer another link that looks at things from a different perspective.

https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/knowledge-base-40/mosfet-regulator-rectifiers-why-how-25117/

I took an extended test ride to verify the charging system and oil tightness. 100% success!

I found where my electricity went! Img_1420
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johnd
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider


Number of posts : 470
Age : 72
Location : Santa Barbara California
Points : 4472
Registration date : 2010-02-01

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13, 2020 11:00 am

Excellent job explaining step by step as well as the pictures. Thank you so much.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper

Number of posts : 3505
Age : 77
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 8186
Registration date : 2009-06-12

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 13, 2020 12:45 pm

Terry Smith wrote:
I can offer another link that looks at things from a different perspective.
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forums/knowledge-base-40/mosfet-regulator-rectifiers-why-how-25117/

Holy crap, Terry, that is a trove of in-depth R/R information. Little thanks to you though I spent most of the night, and well into the wee hours, reading that entire thread. Very informative. Thank you.

Now to figure out how to archive that thread here.
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 197
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 425
Registration date : 2020-03-11

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 5:04 am

A little post-script here; unfortunately the engine didn't remain oil tight and after a few hundred km a small leak started from the stator grommet. I did put sealant in the groove in the cases but the grommet actually seals on the groove in the grommet itself (against the ridge of the case). Only took me an hour or so to pull it down, clean the sealing faces, add some sealant to the grommet groove and get it all back together. Touch wood, that fixed it.
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Expert
Silver Wing Expert
Mech 1 twa

Number of posts : 932
Location : Allentown PA.
Points : 2740
Registration date : 2016-01-02

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 9:22 pm

This is the stuff to seal that stator grommet.  I found where my electricity went! Honda_10

Goo. seals very well. Expands but not for every surface it tends to really stick.
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Terry Smith
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Terry Smith

Number of posts : 197
Age : 56
Location : Auckland, New Zealand
Points : 425
Registration date : 2020-03-11

I found where my electricity went! Empty
PostSubject: Re: I found where my electricity went!   I found where my electricity went! I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 25, 2020 11:07 pm

I used Permatex Silicone Gasket Maker; no issue with its stickiness or sealing, the point I was making was that putting the sealant in the groove in the case did not make contact with the grommet; the ridges are where it needed to be.
In the picture, the blue is where the sealant should be, not the red.I found where my electricity went! 61xzge10
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