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cornishtrailsloth
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 67
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PostSubject: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2020 12:27 pm

Hello from a voice from the long distant past, I have an abused SW which has taken me to work and many a mile beyond, it has been half way up a mountain track (Stella Alpina Rally) and chucked down the road a couple of times.
I have an interesting scrape from the back wheel, on removing it I see that the ASB sensor is off center and a groove is worn into the front side of the guard which surrounds it, the ABS ring has bright metal showing.
Before anyone says it - I have done a search around drive/final drive/back wheel noise, not found anything which fits the bill.
I want to ask a favour - can the next person on here who takes their back wheel off just give it a little wiggle while it is on the drive shaft but not further attached and tell me how much 'wobble' they have, nothing scientific just 'hardly any' to 'quite a lot' will do?
When I do this I'm in the quite alot bracket. Also of interest is when I put it all together it will scrape but no wobble.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2020 1:01 pm

Sounds as if you may have had a loose axle nut. Left to right movement of wheel --as in the wheel is sliding on the axle splines? Or yaw of the wheel even though the axle nut is tight? If yaw then the wheel splines are knackered. If L to R then insure the tapered spacer is on the axle between the wheel and swingarm.

Do tell us more about the Stella Alpina.
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cornishtrailsloth
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2020 3:29 pm

I think knackered splines is unfortunately the correct diagnosis, causing the wheel to move or wobble or yaw as you say, rather than slide side to side.

The Stella Alpina? That was 2017 - went back there with my two pals (them on XT600s) and the silverwing was holding it's own until I ran out of drive because the air inlet to the drive/clutch housing got blocked with dust. I was stopped by Dan (a pal) riding up next to me and drawing my attention to a cloud of smoke coming from the bike, we chucked snow onto it to cool it down which was vapourising into steam for a while. I rolled back down the mountain and when I rode back to the camp site I had a new squeak on acceleration.
I blame KTM - they were there celebrating a so many years centenery so had brought a load of adventure bikes along for punters to try, however they were a little worried the punters might struggle on the trail so had kindly run a grader along the bottom of it to help the poor little riders, it was dry and dusty anyway but they definitly added to the dust.
It was a great trip though and the SW was happy to return me home with no complaints.
Got some pics somewhere but not sure where - if i find them I'll stick them in my gallery.
So just to satisfy my curiosity - do you reckon there is much play/wobble to a wheel if just on the splines? I just can't remember from last tyre change.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2020 3:56 pm

When I lived in Europe, Stella Alpina my summer favorite to go to----used Vespa PX150E (US model), MZ ETZ 250, BMW R80RT (too heavy to be fun, broke fin on oil pan), Honda XBR500S------easiest up and down----MZ or Vespa----Really dirty!! But it was fun to get to top....there you could buy T shirt or Pin. Saw everything from GoldWing with sidecar to modified Vespas on the way up and down.-----Don't think US types on GoldWings or cruisers in their tennis shoes and drink holders would do it.
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cornishtrailsloth
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Number of posts : 67
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2020 5:04 pm

Funnily enough there was a goldwing at the campsite but I didn't see that up at the colle de sommellier!
The guy who started it was a BMW rider wasn't he, John? out of Turin I think.
First time we went we played cricket in the snow with some Austrian guys - the only others to get through the snow on the trail, by the time we got back down the little van selling t-shirts and badges etc was almost sold out of everything.
I won't go again after the KTM people did what they did and there are too many tossers on crossers annoying everyone.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeMon Apr 06, 2020 5:41 pm

The guy that started it was BMW rider----since has turned it over to somebody else----think age got in the way.
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Siataukreg
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2020 5:30 am

see message sent to you
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Loosemarbles
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2020 6:15 am

Well, this is interesting. Some months ago I had a squealing/scraping noise from the rear end when moving the bike backwards, (it didn't seem to happen going forwards!). I thought that I had set the parking brake too finely set and the pads were rubbing the disc. The disc did show uneven rubbing. I removed the rear wheel to have a look at the workings and couldn't see any problems so I put it all back together. I also slackened off the parking brake adjustment.

Just to be sure, I checked the clutch assembly to see if one of the shoes was not seating properly but again I found everything fine. All seemed well and the scraping noise had stopped.

Yesterday, while pushing the bike backwards into the garage I noticed a similar noise once again. This time it has the tone of 'blowing across a bottle top' but it's not constant.

This new thread from 'cornishtrailsloth' has now got me worried again. I'm going to get the back wheel off again and carry out further tests. I've never had a problem with a loose wheel nut so I hope the splines aren't knackered!  Yikes! pale
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cornishtrailsloth
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Number of posts : 67
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2020 11:54 am

Sorry to worry you LM - hopefully it'll just be something in need of a little grease - on mine the abs sensor is visibly off center (pushed forward) and there is a groove in the guard surrounding the sensor, can't miss it if the same, let me know on the wobble factor if your taking the back wheel off.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2020 12:53 pm

When I purchased my 2004 Swing, it had a Voyager Trike installed. I wasn't able to check the rear wheel play. When I got it back to Idaho, had to drive the trike so that the outside wheels were up on blocks so that I could adjust the parking brake. That is when I learned that there was substantial wheel wobble. Like about an inch each side. Someone posted to me that there is a small spacer on the outside of the axle on the swing arm. Most owners do not know that the spacer exists because it usually sticks to the axle bearing with grease. The prior owner must have lost it when last removing the rear wheel. Without that spacer I wasn't able to torque the axle nut to the required tightness. I ended changing the rear wheel, axle nut, inner and outer spacers. All is good now. No end play what so ever. Part number 7 in the picture.wobbly back wheel Mjaynd12


Last edited by Easyrider on Tue Apr 07, 2020 1:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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cornishtrailsloth
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Number of posts : 67
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2020 1:02 pm

love it if that was the problem Easyrider, but I have the full contingent of spacers, suppose I could try replacing them though.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2020 1:08 pm

cornishtrailsloth wrote:
love it if that was the problem Easyrider, but I have the full contingent of spacers, suppose I could try replacing them though.
Look at my repost with a diagram from Partzilla. It is part# 7.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
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Loosemarbles

Number of posts : 459
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeTue Apr 07, 2020 2:59 pm

Thanks everyone. It's got me thinking. I really need to go and have a look. I thought that spacer was on the 'inside' not the 'outside'.

It does seem incredible to me that the wheel will run without that spacer, even if it is fitted on the wrong side.

?????? I need to check this out. Also check the parts manual Question

Let us know your findings cornishtrailsloth.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08, 2020 5:30 am

Loosemarbles wrote:
I thought that spacer was on the 'inside' not the 'outside'.

Part #6 is the inside spacer bud, normally held in place by the oil seal, but if it falls out then when you try torqueing up the nut it tightens against a shoulder on the axle shaft, which does not preload the bearings, hence the movement.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeWed Apr 08, 2020 11:08 am

Thanks The Bern, got it. Mine is definitely on the 'outside', phew!
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cornishtrailsloth
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeThu Apr 09, 2020 4:50 pm

No panic LM - I know I have the spacers correct - had the scooter a while a changed many a back tyre, still keen to know peoples experience of amount of 'slop' with wheel on drive shaft, also the 'end float' on the drive shaft - I have definite if small movement laterally/horizontally along the shaft. Almost resigned to back end strip down anyway but would find it oddly reassuring if someone posted they found no 'slop' or lateral movement to the drive shaft - if that makes sense.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 10, 2020 8:21 am

I understand what you mean cornishtrailsoth. I'm wracking my brain to remember whether I felt any lateral movement in the drive shaft itself, it's the kind of thing my curiosity would have led me to check while I had the wheel off. My instinct tells me that I didn't feel any lateral movement because it would have worried me. As for any 'play' with the wheel 'on' the drive shaft, I would say that it's not good. I imagine that it would need to be a snug fit. I do however have 'backlash' in the rotary movement of the final drive.

If I can muster up the will power I'll take my rear wheel off tomorrow and have a look. I need to replace the muffler gasket anyhow and adjust the parking brake so I'll already be half way to taking the rear wheel off...kind of..... silent
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cornishtrailsloth
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Number of posts : 67
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 10, 2020 10:57 am

There is lash in the movement as you describe - it has been mentioned on this forum before, clunks described etc - main body of opinion is that its normal.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 10, 2020 11:24 am

Yeah, the backlash doesn't bother me. Any movement of the wheel on the splined shaft could be a problem. I'll find out when I have a look.

Perhaps other members might have view on this?
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 10, 2020 12:13 pm

All you have to do is place your bike on the center stand then grip the rear tire then push/pull from the side to see if there is any play. You don't have to remove the rear wheel to check for wobble.
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeFri Apr 10, 2020 3:07 pm

I take your point Eastrider and mine seems to be fine but it's worth a check.

BTW, How did you rig your under seat switched light. Maybe you could post it under 'trunk light switch' heading. I'd be pleased to know.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 11, 2020 2:03 pm

I went to a Honda car dealership and ordered the trunk light for the Accord that has an on/off manual switch. I do not remember the item number. It was a plug-and-play. The wire connector and mounting fitted exactly.
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Delray
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 11, 2020 4:17 pm

Honda part # for trunk light with On/Off switch is 34260-SH3-004.

Simple installation instructions from a previous thread ....

To remove the old fixture, pry the cover off the old light with a flat blade screwdriver -- there's a slot on the side. Once the cover is off, wedge the screwdriver up the side of the fixture and push in; the fixture is held in place by pressure on both sides (look at the new fixture to get a sense of what needs to happen with the old fixture).

When you get one side loose, do the same on the other side and the fixture will "fall out of the ceiling" with the wiring attached. To remove the fixture from the wiring, push in on a small "button" that releases the fixture. To install the new fixture (which came with a bulb in place), just reverse the steps.

I ordered the fixture from Bernardi Auto Parts in Massachusetts. It cost $27.99 (I have no reference if that's a good price or not).
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeSat Apr 11, 2020 5:16 pm

That's the normal price. Most higher and a few a dollar or so cheaper. Replace that bulb with a LED one and it will be much brighter and draw less volts. Looks like that goes back a way 1990 Civic SI hatch to 2006 Insight . Old Hondas I know them well. Thanks for posting part #





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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
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Loosemarbles

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 12, 2020 10:53 am

Thanks Easyrider. I reckon I'll invest in one of those.

I guess the problem is in the under seat switch then? By manually switching the light off it stops the battery draining? Cool Cool

Back to the 'wobbly back wheel' thread......
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cornishtrailsloth
Scooter Rider
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Number of posts : 67
Age : 53
Location : Cornwall UK
Points : 1400
Registration date : 2016-10-24

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 12, 2020 11:53 am

Easyrider wrote:
All you have to do is place your bike on the center stand then grip the rear tire then push/pull from the side to see if there is any play. You don't have to remove the rear wheel to check for wobble.

Not the case with me Easyrider - I had to put the back wheel back on in order to put the brakes on because I forgot to loosen the clutch nut before   Mad - with the wheel on and wheel shaft nut tightened there is no wobble. It is definitely not straight as it fits into the groove on the ABS sensor guard and 'grinds' as it turns, loosen the nut and it will wobble around.

Anyway am now into stripping down the drive case in order to pull the final drive shaft/check bearings, and on removing the variator and pulling the collar off I find a collection of engine oil behind it, so another issue to sort. No sign of leak in the case before I pulled the collar off.

I may take the expensive option of bolting on a rear assembly and rear wheel from a broken SW just to get on the road - will give me plenty of time to refurbish and upgrade the one I have now.

Hey LM - do you remember what make your clutch bell pullers were that you reassembled to do the job?
do you reckon these would work:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Rolson-42309-Triple-Gear-Pull/dp/B000QF5T78/ref=sr_1_16?dchild=1&keywords=clutch+puller&qid=1586707403&sr=8-16
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Loosemarbles
Silver Wing Rider
Silver Wing Rider
Loosemarbles

Number of posts : 459
Location : South East England
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Registration date : 2016-10-01

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PostSubject: Re: wobbly back wheel   wobbly back wheel I_icon_minitimeSun Apr 12, 2020 2:54 pm

cornishtrailsloth, yes, that's what I used. You can piece together a puller fom those three.

See 'clutch bell removal and replacement' in the forum if you want to do a DIY job. It worked for me.

PM me if you need more info.
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