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 Front Bouncy

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Toolman
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PostSubject: Front Bouncy   Thu 15 Sep 2016, 13:21

Has any one tried going to a heavier oil in the front forks to increase dampening?
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Thu 15 Sep 2016, 14:46

IIRC the Hyperpro spring kit comes with a bottle of 20w fork oil, so the answer would be yes
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Front Bouncy   Thu 15 Sep 2016, 14:58

Yes I have replaced the original oil with 15 w but have not noticed a
definitive difference. It might be psychological but under windy conditions I ride with my feet forward and using my leg muscles take some pressure off my bottom ever so little and putting more pressure on my feet and the front end, seems to help with stability.
And we found a lot of wind riding across South Dakota. Howard
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zgoldwingman
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Thu 15 Sep 2016, 23:49

I don't think you could hardly tell the difference if you put 90w oil in the forks. Heavier rate springs are the only thing you can do. The fork spring is the only thing in there to cushion the ride. Swings do not have a cartridge in the forks for dampening. The front forks are basically a pogo stick, with the inner fork tubes sloshing in a fluid. ( my opinion only)
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terrier
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Fri 16 Sep 2016, 13:47

If you're wanting to do all the work involved in removing each fork leg just to try a different oil, which may or may not work, you might as well put a set of Hyperpro springs in and be done with it.

Den Wink
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ericclapham
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Sat 17 Sep 2016, 00:07

I have fitted the HyperPro springs to the front, using the 20W included with them. The front now feels much more firmly "planted" especially through the twisties. The down-side is that the ride is much firmer. I blew the budget and also fitted some Hagon shocks on the back. This combination has noticeably improved the overall handling. This has all been done before by other Swing owners and generally, the reports have been the same i.e.way to go. Smile
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terrier
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Sat 17 Sep 2016, 04:43

I find the front end on my SWing very soft and would love to put a set of Hyperpro springs in but the bike is still under warranty until the end of this year and doing any mods like this would invalidate it. So maybe next year Laughing

Den small moped
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Toolman
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Thu 03 Nov 2016, 15:10



Well, it's time to work on the front bouncy issue. My shock Guru has gone back to Taiwan. So the plan was to take off my forks and send them to Taiwan. I decided to buy a used set off of ebay and send those instead. This might take a few wks. New pistons and reservoirs will be fabbed.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Sat 15 Apr 2017, 13:49

For me I would go with new fork Oil, 20wt synthetic Fork Oil.

I will get new Fork caps, with pre-load adjustments in them, that way I can add more Pre-load to the stock springs.

I will also add as many washers/spacers and a solid spacer on top (pre-load pushes against this part) of the spring, to the point that I have to use some force to get the caps back on.

I Don't want my swing too firm as I have done several Fork/spring Upgrades, and every one of them is on the edge of being to firm for my liking.

I want better handling, More bite, and less Push, through the turns but still want some suppleness to the ride, for comfort.

Or do it ala Old-Goldwing, add a Schrader valve to the fork caps, and 5psi - 8psi of air.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Sat 15 Apr 2017, 23:16

So are fork caps with preload adjusters available to fit the Silverwing? Do you have a link?

Tim
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hondos
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PostSubject: Adjustable fork caps for preload   Sun 16 Apr 2017, 00:07

Yes, Adjustable Fork caps are available for the Silverwing.

Ebay

LINK:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Silver-Wing-Scooter-Billet-Aluminum-Preload-Fork-Cap-Adjusters-Adjustors-/271069380978?hash=item3f1cfe8172:m:m3BAYsT02Mh-UXYQwPQu1yg&vxp=mtr
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Mon 24 Apr 2017, 17:39

When you rebuild or Modify your front forks,

I start by measuring the Fork Sag Droop, once while sitting on the bike and with no rider on it, to get the difference, a lot of sag could be Low fork oil height, or breakdown of the fork oil.

I have used Heavier fork oil, But there is a limit, and going to heavy can provide a Jolt over bumps, as the heavier fork oil cannot get through the dampener tube holes fast enough to keep up with road conditions making your ride worse to much worse with ZERO benefit this is caused by fork oil being to heavy to get through the dampeners holes creating a Jolt.

NOTE: Forks with a Shorter suspension Travel, can be a little tricky as you only have a certain amount of travel to deal with, opening the holes in the dampener will get you to use up you travel sooner, at the high flow rate.

Then all you can do is either go to a lower viscosity fork oil or drill the dampener holes larger, but then you have a similar effect as before changing the oil. The Dampener style Forks are Cheap to manufacturer, with dampener style forks you can only get the dampener holes to a certain size for a certain flow rate, once the max rate has been achieved, you are maxed out until a modification is done or different oil viscosity is used.

I have done several full suspensions on various bikes, I did a full suspension modification to my Suzuki Burgman 650, I drilled the dampener out enlarging the hole size very slightly, and put new fork springs, and put in some preload on the springs to adjust for spring sag Height droop, replacing all fork seals.

For the Rear Suspension, I used Progressive Shocks/springs, I used the Rear shocks for a 86' Goldwing, and put the Lightest progressive spring they had available, they mounted right up to my B650.

Note: I use a wooden broom stick handle to disassemble the forks from the dampeners, from each other, as getting the bottom bolt out of the dampener can be tough, unless you use this trick to stop the bolt from turning, without breaking it loose, the bolt will just turn with the dampener, but wedging the broom handle beside the dampener allows you to be able to break the dampener bolt loose.

I may do some measuring first to see what centerline mounting holes looks like on both bikes, if they are the same, I  might take one side off of both bikes and see if I can swap the progressive shock to the Swing.

I want to do a full suspension on my 05' Swing as it has 24 gram Dr pulley sliders, and find myself going faasster than expected (deceptively Faster) and having the front end push through the turn rather than bite into the turn, that can be Un-nerving.

I will do a write up when I start the suspension up grade on that bike.

My goal is to keep the suspension as supple as possible, without jolting over larger bumps.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Mon 24 Apr 2017, 18:54

'05 SilverWing I suggest first bringing it back to complete stock then go from there if necessary---the years have probably taken a toll on the way the forks are supposed to perform----get rid of car tire on rear, if that is the bike you are going to work on and you may find SilverWing works quite well stock....I have had 2 new ones and they work well when stock and fresh---as your SilverWings have little miles for their age----put some miles on and become very familiar with SilverWing...in the end they are scooters anyway.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Mon 24 Apr 2017, 19:12

SYN. oil is your best option for better flow consistent damping over a wider range of temps.
The only problem is what weight? one Manf's oil can be different than another. 5wt can be someone else 10w. There is a fork oil table out there that lists many. Search internet. I suspect its at least 10 years old though.
HyperPro install soon. Still deciding about using their oil 20w.

Sag is drop in height, spring compression. I doubt oil level would affect it much.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Tue 25 Apr 2017, 00:43

Goldwings have the same bottom bolt setup on their forks as well. I found an electric impact driver usually spins them out even when they don't want to come out with a normal wrench. I wouldn't put them back in with an impact wrench unless you have one that allows setting the finish torque for the bolt.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Tue 25 Apr 2017, 14:04

john grinsel wrote:
'05 SilverWing I suggest first bringing it back to complete stock then go from there if necessary---the years have probably taken a toll on the way the forks are supposed to perform----get rid of car tire on rear, if that is the bike you are going to work on and you may find SilverWing works quite well stock....I have had 2 new ones and they work well when stock and fresh---as your SilverWings have little miles for their age----put some miles on and become very familiar with SilverWing...in the end they are scooters anyway.

No John! that is Not going to happen, A Car tire will remain on my 05' as I would MUCH rather have a car tire, and no amount of talking is going to change what I have already tested and Like so Much better. Now for you, and your bike, do what you feel is best for you.

But my 06' Swing ABS will remain stock. only changing Fork oil to synthetic, and adding fork spacers/washers to remove sag, then adjustable fork caps, I want to see what some very mild suspension tweaking does on the front end. I will Not replace seals, just fluid. Forks are easy to remove on the swing.

Note: the more excess Sag you remove from the forks the More suspension travel you increased in your forks, so if you remove a 1/2" Sag,(not sure what it is currently, just throwing out a Non confirmed number) and slightly increase the spring tension.


Last edited by hondos on Tue 25 Apr 2017, 14:24; edited 2 times in total
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Tue 25 Apr 2017, 14:10

Mech 1 twa wrote:
SYN. oil is your best option for better flow consistent damping over a wider range of temps.
The only problem is what weight? one Manf's oil can be different than another. 5wt can be someone else 10w. There is a fork oil table out there that lists many. Search internet. I suspect its at least 10 years old though.
HyperPro install soon. Still deciding about using their oil 20w.

Sag is drop in height, spring compression. I doubt oil level would affect it much.

Yes I will only be using synthetic fork oil, I will be looking at a few fork oils that are as close to their viscosities as possible, (I know a lot of them are optimistic in their viscosities) I will use Synthetic as it does not break down as fast, as dino oil does.

I will reduce sag, measured starting point to see what the sag setting is, then by adding washers/spacers between top of spring, and fork cap, (that i can still get in the forks while compressing the springs) and using an adjustable fork cap, to increase spring tension from there.

At 4.7" travel both front and rear, it is more travel on the Swing than my B650 has.
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hondos
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Tue 25 Apr 2017, 14:31

exavid wrote:
Goldwings have the same bottom bolt setup on their forks as well. I found an electric impact driver usually spins them out even when they don't want to come out with a normal wrench. I wouldn't put them back in with an impact wrench unless you have one that allows setting the finish torque for the bolt.

I have Rebuilt/modified many Goldwing Forks, GL1000, GL1100, GL1200, GL1500, with progressive suspensions on them, did a GL1800, I had, it was so Much nicer afterward, Gone was the low speed pogo Bounce, and removing one hand from the bars did not instill a wouble after fork rebuild/Mod.

I just got tired of riding a 900 pound bike, it was to car like for me to enjoy, and Not much fun to ride.

I am liking lighter bikes as I age, and gaining a deep appreciation for Lighter bikes, and am going away from heavy weights. As most of us are.

My 12' NC700X is Much more comfortable than those heavy weights.

I really like the new Kawi Versys X 300 twin cyl. it is Light and power to weight looks decent.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Sun 07 May 2017, 16:34

hondos wrote:
Yes, Adjustable Fork caps are available for the Silverwing.

Ebay

LINK:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-Silver-Wing-Scooter-Billet-Aluminum-Preload-Fork-Cap-Adjusters-Adjustors-/271069380978?hash=item3f1cfe8172:m:m3BAYsT02Mh-UXYQwPQu1yg&vxp=

I've been exchanging emails with Sling Shot Racing, the manufacturer of those adjustible fork caps. After I made pointed inquiry and explained the nature of the FSC/FJS600 Silverwing suspension they've finally decided that their billet adjustable fork caps will not fit our Silverwing. Curiously though, they do appear to be able to fit. But given that the fork caps are buried behind the front fairing, how could you get to the caps to make any accurate adjustment

Previously, preload adjustment was accomplished by adding a 10mm long piece of PVC atop the existing spring soacer.

I'll be interested to hear how you get on with your suspension project.

Tim
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Front Bouncy   Wed 10 May 2017, 21:32

I believe you are right adjustable caps will not fit on SW, very little space above caps. Installed new springs last night and put forks back in, there is maybe 3/4 inch clearance above caps. Turned full L+R its tight under there and a wire harness is hanging down.

Adding preload will reduce sag but will not change fork travel its fixed. Once spring, oil and all spacers are compressed fork will not compress any more. There is also the air compressed in fork, it can never really bottom out. Air space also acts as spring compresses.

Short ride today new springs 15Wt Bel-Ray oil, new MICH PP tires. Fork is stiffer in both rebound and compression better than stock YES, a huge difference no. Fork is not adjustable but it would be nice. I'll see how its goes once its gets hotter thats when susp. started to get bouncy for me.
Some wobble from bars, hands off on decal. Not every time. Tire still has tits on it. vents from molding. We'll see.













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