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 Tapered steering head bearings

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The Bern
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PostSubject: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 14 Aug 2016, 04:53

Had to fit a second set yesterday, the first set I used the Honda WSM method of adjustment, WRONG, it leaves them too loose & causes premature wear Embarassed This time they are torgued to 30Ft Lbs as recommended by All Balls (found the little bit of paper this time), it feels tight when turning at the yoke, but is nice & easy when the handlebars are fitted, that folks is the main reason for this post.

Noteworthy is that removal of the bottom taper race is nigh on impossible by 'normal' methods, after literally 2 hours of struggling & swearing I mig welded a piece of flat bar to the race & punched it out from above, which would not have been necessary had I torqued the bearing in the first place, hey ho we live & learn.


Secondary, part numbers (All Balls) :

Kit # 22-1037 (fits all years)
Lower bearing 99-3523
Lower grease seal 33-1008
Upper bearing 99-3520
Lower grease seal 33-1001

The bearing are 'special' sizes so there is no easily available replacement from bearing factors (in the UK)
If anyone fancies trying to get the seals 'direct' there is manufacturer info cast into the rubber :

Upper TTO D8168
Lower TTO E5266

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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 14 Aug 2016, 08:31

Valuable information. Thank you for sharing.     thumbs up

Are you suggesting that the OEM bearing be torqued to 30 Ft Lbs to prevent premature failure?

Tim
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 14 Aug 2016, 15:23

No Tim, (OEM) ball races should be done with spring balance to the WSM spec', the taper rollers need to be at 30 Ft Lbs.
My error was to fit the first taper rollers set with a spring balance intead of torqueing with a wrench Embarassed
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yammer
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Fri 02 Dec 2016, 03:15

My Steering head bearings seriously need replacing and came upon this thread as having read elsewhere it seems that the bottom outer race is a pain to get out. Surely there is a lip where even the Special Honda tool needs to grab on to. Can someone who has attempted the task shed some light as to why this is so difficult to tap out from the top as is usually done as I need to be prepared to take the necessary medical precautions before I plan to do this. Laughing
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Fri 02 Dec 2016, 06:48

Thanks good info, the same applies to G'Wings. Maybe? they are the same bearings I haven't looked at that cross reference. I have a friend that works for a bearing supply company I'll ask him. Info from him has been good, rubber O rings for one all he needs is the old ring or GOOD measurements, some rings / bearing being used for different applications have different numbers for different companies.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Fri 02 Dec 2016, 09:41

yammer wrote:
My Steering head bearings seriously need replacing and came upon this thread as having read elsewhere it seems that the bottom outer race is a pain to get out. Surely there is a lip where even the Special Honda tool needs to grab on to. Can someone who has attempted the task shed some light as to why this is so difficult to tap out from the top as is usually done as I need to be prepared to take the necessary medical precautions before I plan to do this.  Laughing

Trust us, that bottom race is virtually impossible to remove.

My experience was the same as The Bern's; after several hours of cussing & swearing I got out the Dremel and cut the race to relieve the tension. Not a pretty job, mind you, but it got the job done. For all that aggro I should have put in tapered bearings but, who knew...?

Tim
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SilverFeather
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Fri 02 Dec 2016, 10:55

replaced mine 2-3 weeks ago- bottom race is a nightmare.

The person before me fit tapered bearing and the bottom outer race had a tiny lip on it (far smaller than OEM bearings). also the previous person who installed them had hammered the outer race seat trying to pry the original race. was not a pretty site.

That being said, I heated the outside frame then gently taped in a flat balded screw driver to lower the bearing enough for me to get a bearing puller in and then slide hammer it out.

But next time definitely, will just cut the bugger out and save the aggro and potential for more damage.

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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 04 Dec 2016, 02:50

yammer wrote:
My Steering head bearings seriously need replacing and came upon this thread as having read elsewhere it seems that the bottom outer race is a pain to get out. Surely there is a lip where even the Special Honda tool needs to grab on to. Can someone who has attempted the task shed some light as to why this is so difficult to tap out from the top as is usually done as I need to be prepared to take the necessary medical precautions before I plan to do this.  Laughing
Yammer,
The problem with the lower race is that it cannot be reached with a driver/bar from the top. You cannot see the race from the top. You need to fabricate a puller from the bottom. I used a washer that was larger than the stem opening and used a nut on the puller shaft. Tightening the nut gradually extracted the lower race where I could position the puller to get a better grasp on the upper ledge of the race. I did install the All Balls tapered head bearings.
I did this while recovering from an accident breaking both thumbs, collar bone and five ribs. Wife said that I was not getting a new bike, so I rebuilt it.
Had my Swing rebuilt before I could ride again. Took me six months.
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Flyingpanman
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 04 Dec 2016, 05:10

Here's a video from the Italian Swing club showing a curved tool he's obviously made for the job:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rx3yHRn-vs4
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 04 Dec 2016, 13:33

[quote=[Edit] I used a washer that was larger than the stem opening and used a nut on the puller shaft. Tightening the nut gradually extracted the lower race where I could position the puller to get a better grasp on the upper ledge of the race. I did install the All Balls tapered head bearings.][/quote]

It took me long enough but I finally realized how you were using that oversize washer. Now what kind of a puller did you use for the initial grasp of the bearing race?

Tim
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 04 Dec 2016, 22:01

Tim,
I got to go look at my tools and get back to you.
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zgoldwingman
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 04 Dec 2016, 22:30

Easyrider wrote:
yammer wrote:
My Steering head bearings seriously need replacing and came upon this thread as having read elsewhere it seems that the bottom outer race is a pain to get out. Surely there is a lip where even the Special Honda tool needs to grab on to. Can someone who has attempted the task shed some light as to why this is so difficult to tap out from the top as is usually done as I need to be prepared to take the necessary medical precautions before I plan to do this.  Laughing
Yammer,
The problem with the lower race is that it cannot be reached with a driver/bar from the top. You cannot see the race from the top. You need to fabricate a puller from the bottom. I used a washer that was larger than the stem opening and used a nut on the puller shaft. Tightening the nut gradually extracted the lower race where I could position the puller to get a better grasp on the upper ledge of the race. I did install the All Balls tapered head bearings.
I did this while recovering from an accident breaking both thumbs, collar bone and five ribs. Wife said that I was not getting a new bike, so I rebuilt it.
Had my Swing rebuilt before I could ride again. Took me six months.




I had an '87 BMW K100, which the Service Manual advised to use an arc welder by starting a weld on the race surface from the bottom side, it doesn't take much at all, and use as low of setting as you can, race will fall out pretty quickly. I have a wire feed welder now and I think that would make it a lot easier, but haven't had to replace steering bearings lately that I couldn't drive out the old one from the top side.
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Mon 05 Dec 2016, 00:06

Easyrider wrote:
Tim,
I got to go look at my tools and get back to you.

Tim,
Went to look at my puller and remembered that the washer method did not work. The washer bent in the middle. Attached are some pictures. The first pic is a side view. The second pic is the puller. The third pic is a different angle of the puller.

Imagine the bottle is the bottom of the stem upside down. Instead of a washer I used the spare arm from my puller. It worked. To install the new race, I grounded down the outer surface of the OLD race. Position the new race (correctly first time) next stack the old race onto the new race. Using a galvanized pipe, using a hammer, hammer the pipe to install the new race. The old race should be loose enough and should slip right out when the new race is seated. I always use the old race to install the new one. Just remember to ground down the outer surface and test fit. Using the old race should not damage the new one. That is my DIY procedure.


.



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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Mon 05 Dec 2016, 09:07

Thank you for the photos and explanation, Easy. I'm so glad that worked for you.  

While I had to slice a slot in the bearing race in order to "relax" the tension and get pried out, I find it amazing that the tips of the puller arm were able to gain purchase on that bearing race.

Having the cut bearing race allows it to be used to drive in the new bearing race without the need of grinding down the o.d. of that old race.

Also Dermeling a tension-relieving slot in an old wheel bearing allows that to be used as a bearing driver for the new wheel bearing. Of course the old bearing balls and inner race fall apart once the o.d. is cut, leaving you with exactly the piece needed for the job.

Tim
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HORNBLOWER
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Mon 05 Dec 2016, 17:01

Has anybody tried drilling 3 evenly spaced holes in the steering stem shoulder above where the outer race is and then tapping it out from above?
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Mon 05 Dec 2016, 17:13

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Thank you for the photos and explanation, Easy. I'm so glad that worked for you.  

While I had to slice a slot in the bearing race in order to "relax" the tension and get pried out, I find it amazing that the tips of the puller arm were able to gain purchase on that bearing race.

Having the cut bearing race allows it to be used to drive in the new bearing race without the need of grinding down the o.d. of that old race.

Also Dermeling a tension-relieving slot in an old wheel bearing allows that to be used as a bearing driver for the new wheel bearing. Of course the old bearing balls and inner race fall apart once the o.d. is cut, leaving you with exactly the piece needed for the job.

Tim


I read about the dermeling the race but was afraid that I would go to far and damage the stem where the race seats. Thanks for the info about cutting the old race instead of having to grind down the outer surface.
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siataukreg
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Fri 30 Dec 2016, 19:56

I recently took the bottom outer race out of a swing that i was breaking for spares i did it using a flat bar that i cut and welded in a L shape using the L shape upside down as a leaver i was able to move the race just enough to be able to then knock it out from above quite easy really once i figured out the best way of doing it
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Fri 30 Dec 2016, 21:22

Is that a 90° L bend or something less? How long is the short leg?

Tim
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siataukreg
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Sun 01 Jan 2017, 13:10

Yes 90° about 6 inch long short bit 1/4 thick bar approx an inch wide i used an old tyre lever (very strong steel)
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DodgetheRog
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PostSubject: Re: Tapered steering head bearings   Fri 14 Jul 2017, 10:48

Here's the tool I made to shift that lower bearing shell:



It's a piece of round steel bar (all I could find) bent (and re bent and re bent until I found the right angle) with the tip chamfered to a blade:



Once I got the tip lodged on the edge of the shell, a few taps with a mallet and it started to shift. Worked my way around and it just popped out! Have to confess, I thought it was going to be a real hassle but along with making the tool, it all took about half an hour.
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http://www.krfitness.co.uk
 
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