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 BIG Difference after changing air filter

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Gustafa
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PostSubject: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:41 pm

So I bought my Swing back in October of 2015.
The previous owner had just done an oil change, so I havent thought about too much maintenance just yet.
I read a thread recently about how a new air filter will stop some of the shaking, etc of the bike, so without knowing just how long ago the previous owner changed it, I decided to do it. Glad I did.



Can you tell which filter is the old one? Razz

The fairing shaking on take off is nearly zero now and Im riding from Memphis to Knoxville and back this weekend, so Im hoping to keep an eye on the mpg at speeds, etc. to see how she does!

Have you changed your filter lately? LOL
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Fri Apr 01, 2016 3:56 pm

No--I haven't, at 30,000 miles, leftover 2013----gas mileage still fine. But I know history of my bike.

Won't change until I notice some performance difference=no need until then. I am hoping original spark plugs and air filter make it to the 50,000 miles I plan to keep bike. Same on valves.
This is my second new SilverWing, so kinda know what to expect---fresh belts every 16,000 miles, fresh WalMart oil every 60 days, oil filter every other change-----and RIDE.

Leave drive line stock.
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micbusathens
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Sat Apr 02, 2016 9:50 pm

I've never felt a thing by changing plugs and filters nomatter how dirty they were.In fact some mecs say ..leave it dirty(friend mecs).Of course I clean it with gasoline every 25 kilomiles.I'm running my second new one at 80 kilomiles.That dirt, on your old one, is from oil vapors from the oil chamber ,no big deal
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Sat Apr 02, 2016 10:43 pm

micbusathens wrote:
I've never felt a thing by changing plugs and filters nomatter how dirty they were.In fact some mecs say ..leave it dirty(friend mecs).Of course I clean it with gasoline every 25 kilomiles.I'm running my second new one at 80 kilomiles.That dirt, on your old one, is from  oil vapors from the oil chamber ,no big deal

Well, maybe if you've never had a new, clean filter you wouldn't notice much of a difference. Somehow I don't think that a paper filter can be successfully cleaned after being oil & fuel saturated. That's akin to what the military calls Water Boarding.

There's nothing wrong with cleaning a filter but you'd be better off with a K&N filter or a DIY foam filter both of which are designed to be cleaned & reused.

Here is a link to an excellent DIY foam filter hack from the ADVRider forum:http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/d-i-y-foam-air-filter.484058/

Tim
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Mon Apr 04, 2016 2:31 am

I've had both types, K&N and the paper OEM types. I'm convinced that the paper filters stop smaller particles than the K&N. On a Goldwing I had I removed the K&N filter, held it up to the sun and could see specks of light through it. That indicated to me that particles as least as big as those light spots could get through.
My second objection is why not put a brand new clean filter in when the time comes. You don't save much money with the reusable type. Since it's impossible to remove all the dirt from the filter it seems likely to me that the reusable filters become less efficient after a few cleanings.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Mon Apr 04, 2016 1:52 pm

exavid wrote:
I've had both types, K&N and the paper OEM types. I'm convinced that the paper filters stop smaller particles than the K&N. On a Goldwing I had I removed the K&N filter, held it up to the sun and could see specks of light through it. That indicated to me that particles as least as big as those light spots could get through.
My second objection is why not put a brand new clean filter in when the time comes. You don't save much money with the reusable type. Since it's impossible to remove all the dirt from the filter it seems likely to me that the reusable filters become less efficient after a few cleanings.

Like you had both in my 1500 and now one in the S'Wing, cleaning the K&N from the backside only, letting it air dry and then proper re-oiling keeps them going and going. I can hold up one of my truck paper filters and see the same specks of light but at 170,000+ I've yet to see a problem from that. Most don't want to bother with that and would rather just change and go, I have no quibble with either method. K&N to me is for the DIY guy, no shop would bother with that, to time consuming.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Mon Apr 04, 2016 4:13 pm

Paul and OWG, you are both right.

The point of my post was to address the fact that the OP was attempting to clean and reuse the OEM paper filter. IMO I don't think that that is a viable method. Best to replace the filter. But if ya gotta pinch pennies then it might be better to replace the paper element in an old OEM filter with foam.

Tim
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Mon Apr 04, 2016 7:14 pm

One application where I much prefer a K&N filter is in any use that is likely to cause the filter to get wet. I installed a K&N filter on the intake of my Avid Flyer homebuilt aircraft after I put the airplane on floats. It's not unusual for spray from the prop to hit the air intake. In that situation the oiled filter was preferable.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Mon Apr 04, 2016 11:47 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Paul and OWG, you are both right.

The point of my post was to address the fact that the OP was attempting to clean and reuse the OEM paper filter. IMO I don't think that that is a viable method. Best to replace the filter. But if ya gotta pinch pennies then it might be better to replace the paper element in an old OEM filter with foam.

Tim

Yes you are correct o mundo on that. FWIW I've tried to find specs on micron size for OEM vs K&N air as well as oil and haven't had much luck, if anyone has it please share.
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hankster
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:14 am

oldwingguy wrote:

Yes you are correct o mundo on that. FWIW I've tried to find specs on micron size for OEM vs K&N air as well as oil and haven't had much luck, if anyone has it please share.

Might find this interesting.

http://www.nicoclub.com/archives/kn-vs-oem-filter.html
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:27 am

Interesting but as I read it the difference between the top and K&N is only 3.85% and I no longer ride in gravel pits so I guess I'll just take my chances Cool Wondering under normal street conditions how long two incidental engines in identical conditions would last one using one style one the other. One of the easiest to service and clean and never to replace anything but the oil, is a true oil bath air cleaner, the one I use I clean yearly but by the looks of it probably go many years before really needing cleaned.
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hankster
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:13 am

I'll just quote this part of the article (as a note, the tests are run until the filter is plugged, that is the reason for the differences in time).

In 60 minutes the AC Filter accumulated 574gms of dirt and passed only 0.4gms. After only 24 minutes the K&N had accumulated 221gms of dirt but passed 7.0gms.

Compared to the AC, the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 12:06 pm

True that is sir with a rounded up 454 grams = 1 pound how long will one have to ride to accumulate that much dirt=abrasion EVEN IF they could get to moving parts. Remember the finer the dirt / dust the better it burns so what ever passes through a filter gets consumed in combustion. It's a lot like oil filters much is said about what might happen but in the end we ride on for the most part not worrying much about it.
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:03 pm

I've got the bog standard Honda OE air filter and it'll be replaced with another. It does the job just like any other bike or scooter paper air filter and they're never been an item I could ever get excited about.

I've read a lot about K&N air filters over the years and they may be very good if you ride a lot in a dusty environment. But all this washing and cleaning, drying and re-oiling, and extra bottles and cans on the shelf to do the job when you can just bin a paper one and replace it. You do get a free K& N sticker though to show your race credentials.

Being the cynical old git I am, I get amused when I see stuff like 'K&N air filter and drilled air box' on a forum members signature. It's an integral part of the Performance Bluffers Starter Kit, along with a noisy exhaust with a great big logo stamped on it, and the usua Dr Costa, and Joe Pulley stuff.  Smile
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:46 pm

Funny, people make all these "performance" changes and never ride enough to wear bike out. SilverWing is nice scooter, older design.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:54 pm

john grinsel wrote:
Funny, people make all these "performance" changes and never ride enough to wear bike out.  SilverWing is nice scooter, older design.

Amen, never did wear out a bike or cage with or without performance added gizmos but never looked at an air filter as a performance increasing item that one could tell by the seat of the pants feel. I'm thinking about a OEM filter I changed for a fellows 1500, he didn't say before or after the new one that he noticed a performance change but I know I noted his old filter weighed noticeably more than his new filter, both OEM, the old was CRUDDY to the max.
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Gustafa
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 5:09 pm

The thing I noticed was a smoother, less rumbly take off, thats all.
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hankster
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:15 pm

I'm not trying to convince anyone one way or the other. oldwingguy was wondering about the micro rating of the K&N. While I didn't have that I did have a link saved to to actual industry tests for the performance of air filters. The tests show that the K&N clog up 3 times faster and pass 10 times more debris than a paper filter during the tests.

Having facts are good. Everyone can then base their decision on anecdotal evidence and actual test results.
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bikerbill
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Wed Apr 06, 2016 10:08 pm

Anybody try a Hiflofiltro air filter, part number HIFL-HFA1617 for their Swing? About $20. Supposed to be a OEM replacement. Just wondering.
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hankster
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Thu Apr 07, 2016 3:08 am

bikerbill wrote:
Anybody try a Hiflofiltro air filter, part number HIFL-HFA1617 for their Swing? About $20. Supposed to be a OEM replacement. Just wondering.

Yes, I purchased one and it fit perfectly.
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DickO
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:31 am

Where'dja' get it ???
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:48 am

chickendance  chickendance I have 86 K KL on my Swing with original filter.I removed the filter paper and fitted a piece of  foam  dipped in oil. With my Trigg triked Swing I still average 62 mpg on HYW. motorcycle
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hankster
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Thu Apr 07, 2016 12:46 pm

DickO wrote:
Where'dja' get it ???

Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Hiflofiltro-HFA1617-Premium-Replacement-Filter/dp/B000MQ6C5Y
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agreat
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:16 pm

I'm with Meldrew on this, but I have just used a HiFloFiltro coz it was cheaper (it fits and works just like the original) scratch
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bikerbill
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Sat Apr 16, 2016 11:15 pm

I just changed air filter today with a HiFloFiltro today. Old one was pretty dirty but not solid black. Vibration is almost nonexistent! Cost $30.37. Only have 5,900 miles on bike. Used JeffR's instructions. Thanks Jeff!
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JeffR
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Sun Apr 17, 2016 1:04 am

Bill,

Glad the pictorial helped. I bought a K&N and would clean it out about every 5,000 miles just for peace of mind. I think it helps to keep a nice clean filter.
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GHM-PM
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Sun Apr 17, 2016 3:28 am

Again it is each to his/her own. I use K&N on both my Wings. Partly because I live in Arizona, partly because I have used them for over 20 years and cleaning them does not scare me. And using proper K&N cleaning materials I always see a CLEAN filter after the process.

But the main reason I choose K&N is service interval... The Silver Wing (using Jeff's awesome instructions) still takes an hour or so to replace and my GL1800 is nearly a 3 hour job to replace. So I consider this a big time-saver for ME!!!

As always though, use what YOU want to and be happy!
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: BIG Difference after changing air filter   Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:34 am

One thing I did notice both on my '93 GL1500 and my '01 GL1800 which both had K&N filters when I bought them was intake noise. There was quite a bit more with the K&N filters than with the OEM replacements. My guess was that there was more filter area with the paper filters resulting in lower air velocity at a given rpm than with the K&N. By the time one gets the old filter out of a GL1500 or 1800 who would want to fiddle cleaning and re-oiling the K&N.
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