BSA or AMF Harley?

Shortly after I became comfortable with the Danson, I got into a bit of road construction. There was an almost invisible (unmarked) pavement difference. The part I was on was about 3 inches below the existing pavement. I was going about 20mph.
After the SMACK, I stopped, inspected the front wheel, half expecting a broken wheel and/or tire.

Both the wheel and tire survived the incident unscathed, but since then the front brake caliper has been acting like it belongs on either a BSA or AMF Harley -- a small puddle of what appears to be fork oil (red oil) shows up each morning.

My question is: could this have destroyed one or both fork seals, thus the old motorcycle symptoms? The only place the leakage shows up is below the rotor and caliper. Both are grimy. The brake fluid level is correct in both master cylinders, so I'm convinced that it is not brake fluid. There are no other signs of leakage.

I'm puzzled.

:alien beamed u

Jon,
At night, wipe everything clean and then twist tie paper towels to the suspect areas (fork seals, caliper, etc, and leave it over night.

In the morning, which part of what paper towels are wet will tell you where the leak is coming from and the width of the wet stain will tell you how fast it is leaking. Wider stain=faster leak.

Dan

Jon, Do the trick of the paper towels.
You said that you took a big hit. Since I have not worked much with trikes or side cars much. This is guesswork on my part. I presume that there was no leak before the big hit.

If the towels are wet at the fork tops near the seals, a couple of things come to mind.

1. if you hit at an angle you may have twisted the forks a bit causing binding in the up down motion. causing leakage.
try losening up the axle, top clamps, and pump it up and down a few times to reallign the forks/ axle.

2. axle bent...... take to someone who can check for trueness. if bent just replace.

3. you bent the slider tubes that go inside the forks. I have seen this 3 times in my experience. Even a slight bend would cause the forks to weep oil.
Take the forks off and remove the springs and oil. they should move easily up and down their lengh of travel. IF in doubt take the forks apart and check for trueness along the length of the tube. replace if bent in the slightest. (I have never been able to get true straightness on bent ones.)

4. If it is not leaking at the seal area, you may have cracked the lower tube near the axle boss. causing a leak. (never seen this myself but it does happen.)

Hope this helps.
MaxB (who has three sets of inner fork tubes in the garage taking up space)

Thanks to both of you.

MaxB,

There was no leak before the big hit. In fact, the leak started to show itself about two tanks of gas later. The leak is not major (a dime sized overnight spot). The reason I suspect it to be the fork is the color of the oil -- ATF red.

The hit was absolutely straight on. If it had been on a real motorcycle, I could have mitigated it a bit with an induced wheelie. The CVT precludes that, though.

I suppose my main question is "Is there a way for the maximum travel to be exceeded by a mm or two, thereby causing a seal failure?" The strange thing is that there is no blow-by (no oil, etc.) on the radiator scoop, nor on any of the forward body work. I don't think that I bent anything (axle or tube). A slider crack is possible, I suppose.

I'll keep you all informed of the ongoing investigation and subsequent resolution.

If there is no oil up on the fork , but just a little on the bottom. I could be the retainer bolt and selaing washer are loose.
They are parts #20 and 21 on this exploded view.

http://hondaparts-direct.com/fiche_section_detail.asp?section=144693&category=SCOOTERS&make=HONDA&year=2005&fveh=3417

hope this helps

MaxB

joncallihan wrote:

I suppose my main question is "Is there a way for the maximum travel to be exceeded by a mm or two, thereby causing a seal failure?" The strange thing is that there is no blow-by (no oil, etc.) on the radiator scoop, nor on any of the forward body work. I don't think that I bent anything (axle or tube). A slider crack is possible, I suppose.

I blew a fork seal exactly that way. I was riding along the pacific coast highway between Stinson Beach and Muir Beach. There were a lot of sink holes probably 2-3 inches deep on that stretch of road. Most of the sink holes were marked with paint around the edge so you could see them and slow down. This hole wasn't marked. I slammed into going at least 30 mph. I bottomed out both front and rear when I went in, and again when I hit the edge going out of the hole. I didn't notice the leak until a couple of days later when I had the scoot on the trailer on my way back to Utah. I decided to install the Hyperpro fork spring after that. When I took the forks apart the retaining spring that keeps the seal in was kinked. There was no blow by on mine either. Just a small puddle under the fork.

Thanks all.

MikeH, especially. I took it out today, about a half tank of gas, found some reasonably rough pavement, came home and applied fresh paper towels on all the usual suspects (as in Casablanca). The only fresh (red) oil was on the left (brake side) fork tube. Just as pictured in the first photo above.

It would appear that Hyperpro springs, fresh seals for both legs, and fresh brake pads are in my near future. Now that I am reasonably sure what the problem is, I am much happier and content.

Thanks again.

One of the gents on the yahoo forum has had delays in getting his hyperpros. So you may want to look into that and check delivery time.

Mike,
Thanks for the heads up. Delays won't bother me too much, as fixing this is not an immediate goal. The thing is still ride-able around town; the front brakes still work, but not extremely well (rather like me, in fact). It seems that the majority of the oil in the offending leg is long gone, so the mess is getting less like the BSA.

Jon

Mike,
Great reply and thanks for the pictures. I rebuilt my friends forks and that was the same problem on hers. These post help more then one person.

Paul

MikeH wrote:

joncallihan wrote:

I suppose my main question is "Is there a way for the maximum travel to be exceeded by a mm or two, thereby causing a seal failure?" The strange thing is that there is no blow-by (no oil, etc.) on the radiator scoop, nor on any of the forward body work. I don't think that I bent anything (axle or tube). A slider crack is possible, I suppose.

I blew a fork seal exactly that way. I was riding along the pacific coast highway between Stinson Beach and Muir Beach. There were a lot of sink holes probably 2-3 inches deep on that stretch of road. Most of the sink holes were marked with paint around the edge so you could see them and slow down. This hole wasn't marked. I slammed into going at least 30 mph. I bottomed out both front and rear when I went in, and again when I hit the edge going out of the hole. I didn't notice the leak until a couple of days later when I had the scoot on the trailer on my way back to Utah. I decided to install the Hyperpro fork spring after that. When I took the forks apart the retaining spring that keeps the seal in was kinked. There was no blow by on mine either. Just a small puddle under the fork.

It really useful for me. Thanks MaxB for the reply.

All is now good with my BSA / AMF Hog. Got the new seals, brake pads and a replacement top "bolt" for one of the fork legs. Took everything apart, gave most of the bits a good bath and put it all back together. This is NOT a job to take lightly. It is very labor intensive. Photos 13 thru 21 in

http://gallery.me.com/joncallihan#100018

show some of the work needed. The rest of this mess is of the trike build and current status.

Usually it's pretty easy to tell the difference between a caliper leak and a fork leak. Normally brake fluid is clear and doesn't have an oily feeling while fork oil is often actually AFT and colored red. One other tip off is that even a slight fork leak will leave a dirt ring around the fork tube an inch or two above the top of the fork slider. If a brake caliper is leaking it usually won't show up on the fork but a leak in the fork seal will show up on the dust over on top of the slider.
Renewing fork seals isn't a tough job, I've changed many fork seals in various Goldwings when I had my shop. There are a couple of common errors I've seen that cause new seals to fail. One is putting the seal in upside down. The lettering on the seal should be on top or away from the road. The other is installing a seal dry. The top of the fork tube should be taped with a single layer of tape to prevent the delicate lips of the seal from being damaged by the sharp edge. Also the fork tube and tape should be oiled with fork oil to let the seal pass down over it without tearing the seal lips. Those precautions will go a long way toward making a seal replacement last a long time. There's nothing much more irritating than doing a replacement job and finding it leaking a week later.