Fuel discussion

I think it's next month when our standard 95 Octane Unleaded fuel changes to E10, a petrol/gas containing 10% Ethanol. It will become the replacement for standard 95 octane and will reduce C02 emissions.

I remember reading about it being introduced in Germany some years ago and was mildly concerned about E10 and whether the 2008 Burgman 650 I owned at the time would run OK on it. I needn't have worried as 95 Bleifrei (unleaded) was easily available, and it still was when I was last over there on the Silver Wing in 2018.

According to the various bumf I've glanced through on E10, engines manufactured after 2011 should run on it and there’s various manufacturers lists you can check. So early Silver Wing owners may or may not have a problem using E10. Or they may have to change to the new E5 which is replacing 97 Octane Super Unleaded.

As we're all going to have to use E10 soon, I'm going to check if my nearest petrol/gas station has changed to E10 and E5 when I go out on my push bike in a few minutes time.

The manual for the A-7 days E10 is OK.

Re branded vs supermarket petrol. I do not notice any difference in my bikes and cars.

You might in the Silverwing.

If I was running dangerously low on reserve, I wouldn't go past a supermarket brand petrol station because there could be a premium brand one a couple of miles up the road. But if you're brand fixated and are manually capable of pushing 550lbs of maxi scooter along a road wearing full riding gear, respect.  

I've never noticed a difference between premium and supermarket fuels either.

Neither would I.
Brand-fixation doesn't come into it in my case - I make no judgement of what other people think or feel regarding petrol - but my ignoring of supermarket petrol (or diesel) doesn't extend to choosing one named brand over another.

Not that we have a non-ethanol alternative here in this urban area, mind you. But I’ve been using E10 fuel in both my Silverwings since I bought the first one in 2003. AFAIK There have been no long-term ill effects resulting from using E10. Though it does seem to be happier with ethanol free fuel.

MikeO wrote:

You might in the Silverwing.

Not so far for me Mike. It's had had a several tanks of branded and non-branded (around 800 miles has been done on it).

I found that premium (v-power/ultimate) fuels give better mpg on my scoots I have had but its offset by the extra cost.

We shall see; perhaps mixing the two clouds the picture.

Cost isn't an issue for me as far as getting the best is concerned.

I've been lucky to have had access to non-ethanol fuel most of the time for my motorcycles and scooters, but occassional fill up with E-10 is unavoidable, I felt no significant diiference in performance and/or mileage using same octane of both types. On my old carburated motorcycles ethanol fuel is not good for prolonged storage(long topic), but newer FI vehicles with sealed evap systems have little or no issues with it. IAC cost aside, if you are getting consistent better fuel economy with a particular fuel type, no matter is octane or ethanol content, stick with it, only real way we can gauge performance, better MPG is a indicator of fuel efficiency, not HP increase !!,  don't be swayed by placebo effect theories like " ethanol free and/or high octane is better".
 
Sorry for the rant !!

Not touching oil discussion, TMI already out there !!

'I felt no significant diiference in performance and/or mileage using same octane of both types.'

Quite so and I don't argue with that; it's 'your' feeling.

'My feeling' is that it does make a difference but rather too many people discount that by saying there's no difference between branded and supermarket petrol.

As for 'brand-fixation': on reflection I can't see it's any different from/better or worse than brand-fixation demonstrated by having to buy a particular brand of beer or food - sausages, for example.

Certainly, I am as guilty as anyone of that form of brand-fixation although I avoid sausages of any type if I possibly can.

I use 89 octane on my daily driver, 2018 Ford Focus, my regular gas station Shell, sells both E-10/89 and ethanol free/89, I tested each type for 6 tanks/aprox 2,000 miles, mostly light traffic/city driving, my average mileage was exactly the same, is not a very scientific controlled test, but is more " Than a Feeling", the True feeling is ethanol free is more costly and not worth it, same goes for high octane fuel !!

 BTW my Ford has the intelligent oil life monitor(IOLM), no counting miles, etc. 

I don't consider miles per gallon in my personal 'feeling' that the bikes and cars go better with branded fuel in the tank.

"Top Tier" or "Branded" fuels have stronger detergent additives, they reduce carbon build over the life of the engine, to qualify for this rating all the fuel types sold by a particular brand need to(should??) have same additives, regardless of octane or blend(non ethanol,E5,E10,E85,etc.), it cannot change/deviate from parameters set by the "Powers That Be" (EA, EPA, CARB, etc.)to change the fuel octane/emissions/performance.

 So in a nutshell your engine will run better with branded fuel over time, because of reduced carbon build up . That's all great for conventional carb. engines and throttle body fuel injection types, does absolutely nothing to help newer GDI types intake valve carbon buildup, a service that I'm facing next year on my Focus  

zrx212 wrote:

"Top Tier" or "Branded" fuels have stronger detergent additives, they reduce carbon build over the life of the engine, to qualify for this rating all the fuel types sold by a particular brand need to(should??) have same additives, regardless of octane or blend(non ethanol,E5,E10,E85,etc.), it cannot change/deviate from parameters set by the "Powers That Be" (EA, EPA, CARB, etc.)to change the fuel octane/emissions/performance.

 So in a nutshell your engine will run better with branded fuel over time, because of reduced carbon build up . That's all great for conventional carb. engines and throttle body fuel injection types, does absolutely nothing to help newer GDI types intake valve carbon buildup, a service that I'm facing next year on my Focus  

DIY, there kits cleaners out there. Just need to find a good vacuum fitting behind throttle body and run it into intake manifold. Follow directions and intake valves are cleaned best time is when oil change is due don't want some of that in oil. Clean the throttle body at the same time.

Mech 1 twa wrote:

zrx212 wrote:

"Top Tier" or "Branded" fuels have stronger detergent additives, they reduce carbon build over the life of the engine, to qualify for this rating all the fuel types sold by a particular brand need to(should??) have same additives, regardless of octane or blend(non ethanol,E5,E10,E85,etc.), it cannot change/deviate from parameters set by the "Powers That Be" (EA, EPA, CARB, etc.)to change the fuel octane/emissions/performance.

 So in a nutshell your engine will run better with branded fuel over time, because of reduced carbon build up . That's all great for conventional carb. engines and throttle body fuel injection types, does absolutely nothing to help newer GDI types intake valve carbon buildup, a service that I'm facing next year on my Focus  

DIY, there kits cleaners out there.  Just need to find a good vacuum fitting behind throttle body and run it into intake manifold.   Follow directions and intake valves are cleaned best time is when oil change is due don't want some of that in oil. Clean the throttle body at the same time.  

 
 Well my research has shown that those chemical cleaners perform very poorly and runninng those chemicals thru engine can damage O2 sensors etc, even reg TB cleaners can damage special coatings in aluminun TB !!, I'll do it the manual way and possibly get a shell blaster adapter, etc. 
 
 Ironically the best way to keep intake valves clean is to run high quality/synthetic GDI oil, any of top brands will do, it also helps with misfire issues. IAC i'll take a look at 100k, 29k to go.
 
 Hard to draw a line between oil/gasoline discussions !!

I hope the intake faces forward if trying that method. I really don't like Fords cars, trucks so much more difficult to wrench on than some other brands. Walnut blaster then. One cylinder at a time and will need to rotate engine to close valves. Cleaners pulled behind throttle body will not damage it there are safe TB cleaners also.

Direct injected engines run very high fuel pressures 500 or more but the injectors will be into lower head or block not intake no need to touch them.

I always use E5, 98 octane gas. It's better for al the parts when not using your SW on a daily basis.
Ooh I'm from the Netherlands

This link to might be useful - https://www.acem.eu/component/content/article/2-non-categorise/33-e10

I'm fine with E10, well I'll have to be as it's now in all the 95 Octane pumps with a supplemental E10 sticker above it. Now to get out of the habit of saying Unleaded or Super Unleaded, which according to today’s BBC News has now been phased out worldwide.