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 Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off

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19basketball89
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PostSubject: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:12 pm

Hello,
So I was changing the oil today for the third time. Have never had an issue removing anything and went to remove the drain bolt. On almost my first turn of the socket the bolt head sheared right off and left most of the threads still in the bike. How would I go about getting just the material that is left in the threads out?







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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:21 pm

I encountered a similar problem, but the threads did not break off completely. What would work is the sharp end of a punch or a chisel that can get a good hold of the threads and tap gently in the leftie loosie  direction. You have to find a way to get underneath so you can see what you are doing. No need for more complications. Good luck.
When you get to put things back up, no need to overtighten that tappet cover: hand tighten and maybe a half turn more. Search the topic here: it is a popular one.
Jay


Last edited by cotetoi on Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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siataukreg
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Feb 26, 2018 7:23 pm

Think i would have a go with a small chisel tapping it round to shock it lose i cant see it being too tight now the bottom has come off
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:08 pm

As others have said tap it out---I would use drift punch-----no lift to lift bike on, gentle, lay bike on side. May put rag inside to catch any chips. Nice to have new OEM plug on hand, so bike can be used after getting old remains out and adding oil.

While these plugs are Mickey Mouse---usual cause of breakage, over tightening or not using proper socket
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Easyrider
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Feb 26, 2018 9:43 pm

Have you tried spinning off the remaining threads with your fingers? It may not be too tight now that the head is off. I am not assuming that you already tried it. If that does not work, then try a rubber expansion plug with the bolt, washer, and nut. Once tightened, try to unscrew it.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:33 am

As previous, tap & turn with punch or chisel. If you are having a problem with that method you could get a washer that is a little larger than the hole, file two tapering flats on it, gently tap it into the hole (so that the flats just 'bite') then turn the washer with pliers/cresent wrench.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:07 am

19basketball89 wrote:
Hello,
So I was changing the oil today for the third time. Have never had an issue removing anything and went to remove the drain bolt. On almost my first turn of the socket the bolt head sheared right off and left most of the threads still in the bike. How would I go about getting just the material that is left in the threads out?


A reverse acting pair of Flat faced Snap ring pliers will provide sufficient friction to unscrew this remaining threaded section. Use only enough pressure on the plier so that the threaded piece turns, Do not use excessive pressure so that the threaded piece
deforms. Laying the Scooter on it's side will make this job easier. Good luck.

Once you have removed the broken piece, It is advisable to flush the crank case. By using a can of aerosol brake cleaner thru the dip stick tube then tilting the Scooter to the right side so that the Brake cleaner and any particles will run out thru the drain plug hole.

Three or four pounds torque is sufficient tightening of your drain plug, The O ring provides the seal. Check it at each oil change.

Happy Motoring
Lloyd 193.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:07 pm

That will come out unless it cross threaded somehow. Doubt it. Try with finger first but its sharp don't cut yourself. Once head sheared off no pressure on threads. Doubt much metal in there all came out with oil. Live and learn. Its a minor issue take your time with repair.
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DickO
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:49 am

When the glass gets broken out of an installed light bulb so that nothing is left to grab on to for "twisting", folks have been known to just cram a potato into the remaining socket of the bulb (yes, after killing the circuit) and using the potato for a "handle" to turn with.  'Course, if a punch or chisel isn't moving the threads, then the above won't help.  I tend to go along with the rubber plug that tightens with a nut head.  Sorta' like an emergency oil pan drain plug.  Anyway, good luck...
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Mike from NS
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:21 am

Not a fun thing you are experiencing with this. Take your time ... the worst of this is over.  That must have been quite the oil spill. I would go with the punch suggestions and tap gently, if the rubber plug method fails. That would be the least destructive as far as getting any aluminum chips inside, from the chisel or center punch.

But if nothing else you have provided us with some really good photos of the problem.  Slow and easy will win this race. Good luck.
Mike
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:35 am


This is my first post, Since Being deemed a Baddd Boy and being sentenced to 10 days in the dog house.

I have completed my sentence and hope to continue helping members with their problems.

Should anyone wish to contact me, I can be reached at Lloyd1939@hotmail.com.

Happy motoring
Lloyd 193.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:00 am


Once this broken oil drain plug piece is successfully removed intact and undamaged.

You could take it to your local machinist and ask him to Machine a plug tap for you. Once you have a correct plug tap you can recondition the case threads that others have buggered up, By cross threading and other ways they have used to damage the case threads.

I have recommended using a 3/8 bolt to save damaged oil plugs, A 9/16" head size is about .020 larger than 14 MM wrench size.

If your 14MM wrench does not fit a couple file strokes on the flats will correct this, Not having a 9/16" wrench in your tool box.

Remember three or four foot pounds torque is sufficient, Never had a plug get loose or fall out.

Over the years I have seen every case thread disaster you can imagine, Including a cracked case caused from hammering, I do not recommend Hammering on your case.


Happy motoring
Lloyd 193.
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ItBeMe
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:52 am

I just changed the oil for the first time on my trike and the hardest part was getting this old body up and down off the floor. affraid
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 2:52 pm

ItBeMe wrote:
I just changed the oil for the first time on my trike and the hardest part was getting this old body up and down off the floor. affraid

Hard to believe a good looking young man like you could become lodged between the wheel and body of one of these trikes, I thought I was the only one who could do that.

Happy motoring
Lloyd 193.
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willajabir
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:45 pm

ItBeMe wrote:
I just changed the oil for the first time on my trike and the hardest part was getting this old body up and down off the floor. affraid

Floor density hardens proportionately to ones age as does the distance to it.
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 5:52 pm

Down is EZ, up? well that's another story Sad
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 6:53 pm

Im in the process of buying a hydraulic lift. My days of crawling around on a cold garage floor are soon to be a distant memory.

JB
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carolina wing rider
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PostSubject: Lift   Thu Mar 01, 2018 8:44 pm

You are going to love your lift. Just be sure to strap your bike to the lift securely to avoid watching it fall to the floor. I've seen it happen and it is not a good situation. Also, check underneath it for stools or whatever before lowering...I've seen that happen too.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Thu Mar 01, 2018 9:59 pm

lloyd193 wrote:
Once this broken oil drain plug piece is successfully removed intact and undamaged.You could take it to your local machinist and ask him to Machine a plug tap for you. Once you have a correct plug tap you can recondition the case threads that others have buggered up, By cross threading and other ways they have used to damage the case threads.

Further to Lloyd's advice, the Honda part# for the "Tappet Cover' (drain plug) is 12361-300-000, and has the thread size of M30-1.5 x 4mm long.

There are also aftermarket billet-machined tappet covers available (some in anodized black) with a 17mm bolt head vs the OEM 24mm, easy to round-off, bolt head.

Tim
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:56 am

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
lloyd193 wrote:
Once this broken oil drain plug piece is successfully removed intact and undamaged.You could take it to your local machinist and ask him to Machine a plug tap for you. Once you have a correct plug tap you can recondition the case threads that others have buggered up, By cross threading and other ways they have used to damage the case threads.  

Further to Lloyd's advice, the Honda part# for the "Tappet Cover' (drain plug) is 12361-300-000, and has the thread size of M30-1.5 x 4mm long.

There are also aftermarket billet-machined tappet covers available (some in anodized black) with a 17mm bolt head vs the OEM 24mm, easy to round-off, bolt head.

Tim

In addition to Tim's advise, I will add that these CNC machined 6061T6 Tappet plugs are beautiful done and of the highest quality. For the price of around $20.00 including a new O ring These cannot be beat. Type into your search engine, Honda Billet tappet plugs, Drain plugs.

Happy motoring
Lloyd 193.
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Sidewinder Pilot
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Fri Mar 02, 2018 11:47 pm

Something like $17 with $8 shipping, real nice looking too, from Dennis Kirk on FleaBay...
Gonna get me one!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Joker-Machine-Clear-Anodized-Valve-Tappet-Cover-12-001-1S-12-001-1S/182933512913?epid=1222291914&hash=item2a97afe2d1:g:rQ4AAOSwubRXM1jL&vxp=mtr
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:31 am

Or you could go to your local hydraulics shop & ask if they have a Gates 22MKB-PLUG, G63980-0022 (which is a male hydraulic plug with a M30X1.5 thread) that & a copper washer to suit will run you about $4

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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sat Mar 03, 2018 4:55 am

Further to my post above, if by some remote chance you have a damaged thread in your sump, get one of those plugs & cut 4/6 hacksaw slots (vertically) & use it as a tap, loads cheaper than buying a commercial one or having one turned, any swarf generated will fall into the plug, winner all round Smile
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:47 am

The Bern wrote:
Or you could go to your local hydraulics shop & ask if they have a Gates 22MKB-PLUG, G63980-0022 (which is a male hydraulic plug with a M30X1.5 thread) that & a copper washer to suit will run you about $4


I'm going to try for one at the local shop, keep it as a back up or just use it at next oil change time, thanks.
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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:38 pm

That Gates plug is what I've been looking for it steel not soft metal. I want to drill and install a smaller drain plug that way no big mess every time I change the oil. Might loose a little ground clearance but I don't off road this thing. Spring will fit in there no issues.. Trying to use a automatic trans pan drain type plug. That should work nicely. Smart people here.
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Sknrdtec
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:52 am

I sure would like to know if 19basketball89 resolved this issue .
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:11 am

Mech 1 twa wrote:
That Gates plug is what I've been looking for it steel not soft metal. I want to drill and install a smaller drain plug that way no big mess every time I change the oil. Might loose a little ground clearance but I don't off road this thing. Spring will fit in there no issues..  Trying to use a automatic trans pan drain type plug. That should work nicely.  Smart people here.

The 22MM plug pictured will not fit your oil drain plug 30MM-1.5 pitch threads. The description in the ad is incorrect as well as the price which is for multiple Quantities.

Suggest you use (Honda Billet Machined Tappet Cover), These are the correct size as well as Correct thread, CNC Machined Quality 6061T6 Alloy. Priced at about $20.00 freight paid.

Happy motoring
Lloyd 193.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:18 am

lloyd193 wrote:

The 22MM plug pictured will not fit your oil drain plug 30MM-1.5 pitch threads. The description in the ad is incorrect as well as the price which is for multiple Quantities.

I differ in opinion, the spec' sheet says it will fit, please see .....

http://www.biedlers-hydraulics.com/gates-22mkb-plug-g63980-0022-hydraulic-hose-adapter.html

Price from Biedlers is expensive Shocked
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:03 am

Oh dear, I make a civil post to correct another members erroneous post & get a red mark, can't say I'm surprised though Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


EDIT : ooooh look a red mark here as well Sleep Sleep Sleep


Last edited by The Bern on Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:52 am; edited 1 time in total
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:14 am

I don't know if they make one for our scoots but Fumoto makes oil drain plug valves. I installed one on my diesel truck and it is very well machined and works like a charm. I bought it from CarID on eBay.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:33 am

sonuvabug wrote:
I don't know if they make one for our scoots but Fumoto makes oil drain plug valves.  I installed one on my diesel truck and it is very well machined and works like a charm.  I bought it from CarID on eBay.

Good point bud, I had a Stahlbus model in one of my trucks, had a look & your side of the pond I find ... EZ oil drain valve EZ-7 is M30x1.5 used in Duetz models F3L913, F4L913, F6L913, F8L413.

info taken from .... ezoildrainvalve.com/uploads/3/5/2/6/35266975/ez_comprehensive_chart.pdf

EDIT : I really would like to know why tis is voted down, is the information supplied in some way wrong ???????????


Last edited by The Bern on Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:15 pm

Not sure about clearances, but I always preferred not dealing with having to fish a dropped non-ferrous plug out of a bucket of dirty oil!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EZ-7-Oil-Drain-Valve-30mm-1-5-with-12-5mm-Drain-Hole/183104374296?hash=item2aa1df0618:g:XPAAAOSwmXlamWfq&vxp=mtr

About $40 with shipping...
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 12:55 pm

I think that that EZ-7 Oil Drain Valve would invite disaster. It appears that the valve is so much longer than the OEM drain cap that the Drain Valve would protrude below the engine sump guard plate. If the drain valve was impacted --say transitioning between a street and rising driveway-- then the drain valve could transfer that stress directly to the engine sump. 

I think Jay in New Brunswick had a similar problem with a broken sump / drain plug mount on a Helix.

I do like those billet plugs though. And good to know that that Gates M30-1.5 plug would make for a inexpensive DIY thread chasing tool as well.

Tim
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:24 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
... snipped ... I think that that EZ-7 Oil Drain Valve would invite disaster. It appears that the valve is so much longer than the OEM drain cap that the Drain Valve would protrude below the engine sump guard plate. If the drain valve was impacted --say transitioning between a street and rising driveway-- then the drain valve could transfer that stress directly to the engine sump. Tim

Good point you raise Tim ... I think any of the drain "valve" products share the same issue. Heck, I'm even worried about the one I installed on my truck and it's clearance is so much higher than a scooter.
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 2:28 pm

The Bern wrote:
 ... snipped ... EDIT : I really would like to know why this is voted down, is the information supplied in some way wrong ???????????

I gave you the "+" for this post ... just to offset the " - " you received for your earlier post.

Bern, you did nothing wrong.  I think someone is messing with you and just trying to get a rise out of you.  Don't know if the mods can track who it is but it may be worth sending a PM to one of them and ask.
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willajabir
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:15 pm

The Bern wrote:

EDIT : I really would like to know why tis is voted down, is the information supplied in some way wrong ???????????

Well, to paraphrase you from another thread about post counts:
I have no idea nor am I interested what my vote count is, so consequently take no notice of it
(Beware, as the previous poster persisted and escalated his inquiry and was sent to ban camp)

Why worry about it? If it is something wrong, the moderator will handle it.

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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:54 pm

sonuvabug wrote:
Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
... snipped ... I think that that EZ-7 Oil Drain Valve would invite disaster. It appears that the valve is so much longer than the OEM drain cap that the Drain Valve would protrude below the engine sump guard plate. If the drain valve was impacted --say transitioning between a street and rising driveway-- then the drain valve could transfer that stress directly to the engine sump. Tim

Good point you raise Tim ... I think any of the drain "valve" products share the same issue.  Heck, I'm even worried about the one I installed on my truck and it's clearance is so much higher than a scooter.

Indeed, having now seen a picture of that particular item it is more 'bulky' that the one I fitted to my truck, that one has a physical tap, mine has an internal valve that is opened when the drain pipe is screwed in.
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:07 pm

sonuvabug wrote:
The Bern wrote:
 ... snipped ... EDIT : I really would like to know why this is voted down, is the information supplied in some way wrong ???????????

I gave you the "+" for this post ... just to offset the " - " you received for your earlier post.

Bern, you did nothing wrong.  I think someone is messing with you and just trying to get a rise out of you.  Don't know if the mods can track who it is but it may be worth sending a PM to one of them and ask.

Thanks for your positive thoughts bud Happy Holiday
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:17 pm

willajabir wrote:
Why worry about it? If it is something wrong, the moderator will handle it.

I only worry that I may have mis-informed with my post which would never be my intention & yep, we have top notch mod's on here Happy Holiday
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cotetoi
Silver Wing Expert
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Number of posts : 594
Location : New Brunswick, Canada
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Registration date : 2013-06-27

PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:34 pm

Tim, my problem with the Helix resulted in totally ruined right side cover where the drain bolt resides. I was able to Permatek that hole and did my oil changes thru the oil filler. That motor has plenty of clearance in the sump. I threaded a piece of steel wire thru a hole in a piece of galvanised steel cut in a circle slightly bigger than the drain plug. With a knot on the inside I was able to pull that disk tight and then plaster the outside with Permatek gasket maker material. It worked great. I bought a right side cover just in case the repair let go. I sold the bike, and gave the new owner the cover. I showed him the repair.
I don't think the current problem of the OP is anything close to that. My 2005 SWing did have a similar problem but the threads were hanging to the drain bolt by millimeters.
Jay.
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lloyd193
Touring Scooter Rider
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Location : Orlando Fl. USA
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PostSubject: Re: Oil Drain Bolt Sheared Off   Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:10 pm

Adding any weighty steel valve to the oil drain threads is inviting trouble, It is prudent to remove the strainer each time the oil is changed to inspect it for foreign particles, A valve would have to be removed at each change to accomplish this.

Improving on the Japanese technology incorporated in the Silverwing requires huge amounts of thought and experience, I suggest the well thought out oil change process be improved with a 6061T6 plug, Nothing heavier, Bigger or with a Different heat expansion ratio than the Aluminum case.

Those stripped case threads are a real pain to repair, In this case I suggest leave well enough alone and check that O ring's condition at each oil change.

Remember three or four foot pounds is all that is needed to tighten your drain plug, The O ring does the sealing and prevents the plug loosening.

Happy Motoring
Lloyd193.
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