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 Older Rider recent experiences

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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Older Rider recent experiences   Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:57 am

I do not consider myself old, but 78, 79 in May, wish to pass on some recent experience for older riders. Although I have been riding daily since 1955, I found loaded SilverWing getting a little heavy for me in slow speed stuff---with rear weight bias, Givi Box, bike could easily topple at parking lot speeds---and then the not complete control of gas/clutch/rear brake got to me also. Auto clutch does not allow for complete operator control of power kick in---just a fact.

My second new SilverWing had reached near 50,000 miles---mileage I usually trade.....so I did! Late Oct 2017 bought new 2017 Honda CB300F($4000)--Thai made and quality appears to be same as Japan. Performance about same as SilverWing, gas mileage better--68-70 US mpg ridden hard. Of course I miss underseat storage of maxi-scooter---but have Hepco & Becker C-Bow bags and their rear luggage rack with $40 Bestem top box----dog likes it...this rear loading does not seem to bother handling both on highway or at slow speeds. I use $29 magnetic tank bag=works well.

Bike now has 4086 miles, been ridden to and in 10 or 11 states, have done 600 mile inspection at home, also inspected/adjusted/changed oil & filter at 4,000 miles=found no problems.

Two points: I am now riding BUFFET FREE, with windshield system I worked up---two Puig screens mounted in tandem, a short one and Bigger Touring II---ok comfort even in rain/fog/really crappy weather with 3/4 jet helmet, safety glasses and of course throw away foam ear plugs--use 2 sets a day under way.

Second: Gas/clutch/rear brake(non-linked) control for the slow speed stuff. And of course bike is about 200 lbs lighter than SilverWing. There is some drive line lash--feature of most Honda motorcycles.

Lack of centerstand...really sucks. Open chain a bit messy, have been using ATF on it=works seems to stay on in rain. I expect 30-40,000 mile life from chain and front sprocket=much cheaper than drive belts on maxi scooters. Will replace with cheap/non O ring chain ($20-$30)---kept oiled, they work well

Comfort =ok. Reg.gas. Would prefer drum rear brake over disk. I have rigged up plug for my Aerostich heated bib---electric system seems to handle it well in all day riding. Cold weather starting=perfect.
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SteveSilverWing
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:01 pm

Hi John,

I checked out your new bike and find it to be attractive though much smaller and lighter than my Silver Wing. I have to say, I wished I had the same type of fuel efficiency as you now enjoy. In case anyone else would like to have a look at your new CBF300F, here is a link to a brief overview video.

Safe riding, John, and now you are no longer running on a rubber band! Smile

Steve

2017 Honda CB300F Review of Specs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSB6L9CILjY
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:16 pm

Hi John,

Nice looking bike. I hope you have many years of riding on it.

Just my 2 cents on the chain. I had a 74 CB750 and had to put a new chain on it every year. I didn't baby it. I bought an O-Ring chain for it one year, can't remember just how much but it was pretty expensive. I adjusted it once after riding it for a couple of months and never had to adjust it again. The dealer I got it from said he doesn't mean to cut down my bike but it's not powerful enough to justify a "good" chain like this one. I told him that I was tired of having to buy a chain every season so I'm going to try it to see how it works. Loved it. I used Chain Wax spray on it and that seemed to work great. The directions said to spray it on while the chain is still warm from a ride so it "soaks" in. I did that about once a season at the beginning of the riding season right after I got home from the first ride.

Like I said it's just my 2 cents. I hope you really enjoy the new bike. It sure looks nice.

One other thing. The 750 has a lot more power than the 300 so maybe the less expensive chains will work fine. Less power. Less stretching.
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bikehiker
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:16 pm


I would be interested in the 300F ABS if it were a DCT with a knee angle of at least 80 degrees. If you still enjoy the shifting and ergonomics, I envy you on that great, exciting, efficient bike.

I got about 15,000+ miles from my chains on my 1986 Honda 450 Nighthawk.
Chains can be a pain, but with good maintenance and/or a Scottoiler, you can have the same confidence as a belt or shaft. The Scottoiler gives the chain amazing lubrication, and a cleanliness as good as when you first pulled the chain out of the packaging. But it's kind of expensive. I just stayed with manual maintenance using good chain sprays.

My old age forced me off of my belt-driven super-exciting, fuel-efficient BMW F800 ST because its 75 degree knee angle and six speed (butter-smooth) transmission cramped me to the point of having to stop every 50 miles for a stretch of my medium 5'10" frame. Couldn't afford both F800 and Swing, so I had to trade for the comfort. Won't go back to shifting a car or a bike any more.

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steve_h80
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:04 pm

I used to get through a chain every 10k miles on a Suzuki 750F, not cheap way to go. When I traded up to an RF900 I fitted a Scottoiler and got over 30k miles. Since then all of my chain drive bikes have had Scottoilers with the same result, 30k plus and chain only adjusted when I had the wheel off.
Incredible things.
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lewjayjr
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Mon Jan 15, 2018 1:10 pm

I'm like Bikehiker. I can't ride with my knees bent anymore. Traded my last bike (85 Honda V30 Magna) as I could not ride long without legs hurting. With my Swing, I can stretch out my legs and ride without hurting. I'm 6'1" and am 72 right now. Waiting for it to warm up so I can ride some more.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:47 pm

My comments on drive chain: Having owned bikes with open roller chain, O-Ring open, and CD (business bikes up to 250cc) Hondas with tin chain cases, Maico Blizzard with tin chain case and best several MZ's with chain running in enclosed case--chain ran in grease--I cleaned the grease out twice a year and replaced with fresh grease---East German chains were not good and spit rollers, but once replaced with cheap Japanese roller chain....which seemed to go on forever as no dirt/mud got to them.

So I think open chains are a cheap way for makers to provide final drive.

Harley Big Twins used to have chain oiler, that you could adjust with spacing washers as I recall. Triumph also, if I remember right used crankcase blow by to lube final drive. Think EPA killed those practical solutions.

Chains do not stretch---they and the sprockets wear. O-ring chains lubed and sealed but oil is still needed to lube sprockets....if you want things to last.

I am aware of Scotoilers and think a good idea.

My record on open chain and sprockets=43,000 miles, Suzuki GS500E. Included were several trips to Mexico, one to Central America....lots of dirt/dust. Bike with centerstand=easy to oil and I used lots of oil. Replace chain and sprockets---cheap roller chain and sprockets from Dennis Kirk, when I traded that at 64,000miles---they were still going strong.

Never had much luck with commercial sprays---you hit much more than chain when you spray----my CB300F has no centerstand, so I just oil the lower run---equals out in time.

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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:17 pm

Before O- ring chains and oilers I made my own chain oil, Slick 50 and powdered graphite, cut a 1 gal can down to a couple inches high mix in the graphite while heating the " oil " on a electric hot plate. When the mix just started to bubble slowly coil the chain into the mix, turn off the heater. I'd let it sit for a bit while lifting and lowering he chain in the mix. Remove chain and let it drip. A bit of a pita looking back at it but the chains wore well doing that. LOL, come to think of it perhaps that's what made me like shaft drives so much.
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carolina wing rider
Touring Scooter Rider
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PostSubject: Silverwing replacement   Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:38 pm

Are you having any transitional aches or pains going from a Silverwing to a sport bike?
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carolina wing rider
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PostSubject: Chain drive   Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:52 pm

John it has been my experience through the years that chains DO stretch. Have you never had to adjust any chain on a bike through the years? When one has to tighten a chain (and I've had to tighten many) it can only mean one thing........it stretched. Am I wrong?
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:53 am

carolina wing rider wrote:
John it has been my experience through the years that chains DO stretch. Have you never had to adjust any chain on a bike through the years? When one has to tighten a chain (and I've had to tighten many) it can only mean one thing........it stretched. Am I wrong?

I would agree with John on this one .....

john grinsel wrote:
Chains do not stretch---they and the sprockets wear.  

Pins & rollers wear, now if we take an imaginary chain that has 125 rollers, if each of these pin/roller combinations wears by just one thousanth of an inch you need to re-tension the chain an eigth on an inch to get it back to it's original state of adjustment. If the rollers are not lubricated over the sprockets, over time the sprockets will also wear, causing the need to re-tension the chain yet again.
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Jolly Bodger
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:11 am

On my Hornet 600 I fitted a new chain added a Scott oiler, adjusted the chain after about 500 miles and never needed to adjust again. Did about 10k before I sold it and NO I didn't have oil all over the rear because the oiler was correctly set. If I get another chain drive it will have another oiler fitted.

JB
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carolina wing rider
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PostSubject: Chain "stretch"   Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:23 pm

You guys are absolutely right but for at least 50 years the result of all this wear...rollers...sprockets has been called "chain stretch" by everyone I've known in the power sports business. My terminology of "chain stretch" seems appropriate to me and I don't know what else to call it.........drive train fatigue? What terminology should I use when describing this situation?
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oldwingguy
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Thu Feb 08, 2018 7:39 am

"chain stretch" seems appropriate to me <<>> works for me too.
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lloyd193
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:16 pm

carolina wing rider wrote:
You guys are absolutely right but for at least 50 years the result of all this wear...rollers...sprockets has been called "chain stretch" by everyone I've known in the power sports business. My terminology of "chain stretch" seems appropriate to me and I don't know what else to call it.........drive train fatigue? What terminology should I use when describing this situation?

I understand this is a Silverwing Forum,

Back in the old Days, A chain breaker, tools, extra adjustment screws and nuts, Half links, Links, Master links and sometime a spare chain, A can or two of 120 gear lube were standard equipment in my 74's saddle bags and my Flat head 80 bags along with plenty of rags and hand cleaner. I also carried old dutch cleanser to roughen up that liquid hand cleaner to try and remove some of the grease.

Several bottles of warm Budweiser carried in the other saddle bag helped with the Chain repair job's,

Louisiana to California on these dinosaurs twice a year guaranteed chain problems before the round trip was done.

Then along came my first Triumph Bonneville, Great bike, But still had the dreaded chain.

The Amal carburetors allowed the removal of the slide nut on the slide barrel, The return springs could be screwed off the cables and I would put them in my pocket. The throttle would remain where it was set with occasional adjustment back to wide open.

Thank goodness we do not have to contend with those chains today.

I cannot understand anyone buying a bike today with a clutch lever or chain drive.

Enjoy your bike,

Lloyd 193.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Older Rider recent experiences   Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:28 pm

Yep, 'chain stretch'. True, that's not the complete story but that's what it is. When you lay the chain out on a flat surface and try to bend it sideways you sure can see it. A new chain is nice and stiff in a sideways direction, stays in a straight line. Do that with an older chain and it will bend sideways quite a bit. It's also true of course that sprockets wear. A worn chain allows the rollers to be slightly further apart than the sprocket gullets. That causes the chain to ride up on the sprocket so that the rollers are riding more on the upper edges of the sprocket teeth causing more sprocket wear.
When I got my first bike in 1958, a pretty sad '49 Triumph 650 Tbird, I lived on Edwards AFB out on the Mojave Desert. That sand sure affected chain wear. I got lots of practice cleaning the chain with gasoline and a stiff brush then dipping it in melted grease.
One of the things I really appreciated when I bought my first Goldwing was its shaft drive. Runs forever with minimal maintenance.
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