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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 6:31 pm

I live in a non inspection state and am considering removal of the Evap and pair systems. I searched and surprisingly I couldn't find any topics related to the removal of either.

It looks like there aren't any cel codes related to either listed in the fsm so, I, don't think it would throw any codes.

Had anyone else done this? I'm familiar with the actual procedure from doing the same on other vehicles.

The reason I would be interested in doing this is to free up space in the engine compartment and reduce points of potential vacuum leaks.

Thanks!
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:01 pm

Well it looks like the pair system will be really easy. Unlike most bikes I've dealt with the system enters through the valve cover and instead of having to create block off plates I'll just need to cap the port on the top of the valve cover. I'm going to disconnect the pair and Evap solenoids electrically and make sure it doesn't turn the fi light on. If it does it will be easy to install a resistor on each connector to simulate the resistance of the solenoid winding. I don't think it's going to as there is no code in the book related to either.
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel


Number of posts : 3304
Age : 85
Points : 9299
Registration date : 2009-08-18

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:11 pm

Why? they run just fine the way they come from the factory.
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:18 pm

For one the pair solenoid makes one of the spark plug wires a pain to remove. Two the Evap canister makes the exhaust manifold bolts hard to get to. Three there is little enough room to work with and removing a bunch of hoses and crap will expand that room. Four every vacuum hose is a chance for a vacuum leak. Five the pair system does no good, its actual function is to dilute the exhaust stream to trick emissions testers. Six the pair system creates both hotter exhaust valves and intermittent t after burns in the exhaust leading to annoying popping on deceleration.

But mostly just cause I wanna:)
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:20 pm

Oh and less weight = moar powa!

(yes I know it won't make any difference.)
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel


Number of posts : 3304
Age : 85
Points : 9299
Registration date : 2009-08-18

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:25 pm

But engine/smog problems are almost unknown with SilverWing----taken care of they have over 100,000 mile trouble free life.------make it stock, go out and ride it 10,000 miles or so and see if you have any problems related to the smog stuff. I have about 80,000 miles of SilverWing experience with 2 new SilverWing=no smog stuff related trouble or engine trouble. Japanese engineering is pretty good.
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:29 pm

Honestly this biggest reason is to free up space to make working on it easier. I do all my own work and it's important to me.

I do definitely understand your reasoning against removal though
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 7:31 pm

But maybe I'll leave them in and if I have to work around them again I'll consider pulling them then.

Im honestly hoping I dont have to do much in the way of repair on the old girl.
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4416
Age : 81
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 10597
Registration date : 2009-06-12

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 9:57 pm

I don't expect that you'll need much of any service on your S'Wing. We've never heard of any reports of anyone even needing valve adjustments. Biggest problem I recall, aside from fork seal leaks and the occasional wheel bearing replacement, is having to replace a bad stator. Oh, and an occasional crankshaft seal or a clutch bell seal leak.

Curious that you mention is the "popping on deceleration". I never noticed that noise on my 2003 (97,000 miles), however it is noticeable on my 2009. I also notice a significant hot odor and heat radiating from the muffler during fuel stops after long freeway speeds. Though I don't know if those conditions can be attributed to the O2 sensor in the exhaust and the remapped ECU of 2008 and later models. 

Maybe if you do end up removing the Evap & PAIR systems you'll find room to mount a mini air compressor. That'd be nice.

Tim
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSat Nov 12, 2016 11:26 pm

The 07+ model with the 02 sensor probably is able to run a lot leaner than the older ones. Without an or sensor the system has to be built with a little fudge factor to prevent an over lean issue. So my guess is 07+ generally runs leaner which will cause the exhaust to be hotter.

I'm really leaning toward removal. I just don't like having a bunch of unnecessary stuff on my equipment. I'd hate to have to pull the exhaust manifold on the side of the road for some reason and be kicking myself for not getting the Evap can out of there.
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 2658
Age : 81
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 8247
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 7:07 pm

The later models definitely do run leaner, it's easy to see by the improved fuel mileage. The heat in the exhaust system might be from a CAT. I don't know what year Honda started using one but the do have them on the new models in Europe. Pity they still offer a 2016 model but don't import them anymore.
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 7:08 pm

I'm pretty sure all the swings have a cat in the muffler. But I'm not positive.
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 2658
Age : 81
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 8247
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 7:17 pm

Me neither but suspect it might have started with the later models with the O2 sensor.
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 7:19 pm

Maybe but I will say the muffler on my 03 is heavy as hell and I'm thinking it's from a cat being inside. Can't be sure though. It'll be on ebay soon though. Ima get something better
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exavid
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru



Number of posts : 2658
Age : 81
Location : Medford, Oregon
Points : 8247
Registration date : 2009-07-17

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 9:01 pm

Could be. Might be that all of them had the CAT and just remapped for the O sensor.
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Kennylxix
Maxi-Scooter Rider
Maxi-Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 156
Location : FL
Points : 2987
Registration date : 2016-11-05

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PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 9:02 pm

Yeah the sensor definitely allowed them to go leaner.
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zgoldwingman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 21
Age : 78
Location : Evansville, In.
Points : 2916
Registration date : 2016-07-25

Emissions removal Empty
PostSubject: Re: Emissions removal   Emissions removal I_icon_minitimeSun Nov 13, 2016 9:31 pm

I bet they have a cat in them, my 04, NSS250 Reflex has one in the muffler.
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