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 Too Bouncy

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+17
The Scootist
dekare
Easyrider
phils a winger
sonuvabug
Reg
janitorj1
Cosmic_Jumper
john grinsel
Meldrew
The Bern
Flyingpanman
Old Limey
Kevin Jackson
exavid
oldwingguy
Toolman
21 posters
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AuthorMessage
Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 47
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 2900
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 25, 2016 12:05 am

First topic message reminder :

So I love my Wing, but, it's too bouncy on a rough fwy. Honda could have done better with that I think. I do work for a aftermarket coil-over shock company 2 doors down from my shop. Their main plant is in Taiwan. I'm a cnc guy and I have to say, these guys do great work. They said they would build a set of shocks just for a Wing knowing there is a void in this area. The shock builder is called "Gears".

So I am giving my bike to them for a while. I've been told the shocks are done and the main shock guru is bringing them here from Taiwan himself in a week or two. So the guys next door come over to tell me they have to take the whole back of the bike apart to get the shocks off....WHAT!!!  No way! The shocks are going to be on and off the bike many times to dial them in. Well, I'm a tooling guy so here's what I did. I don't know why Honda didn't do this.

Figure out where the shock nut is behind the plastic. (I just centered it on the radius)

I used a 1 1/2" hole saw with an 3/8" air ratchet because that's the only thing that would fit in the storage area.

Pop the hole thru. The guide drill only needs to stick out 1/4" from the saw itself.

Plug hole with 1 1/2" stainless sheet metal plug.

I tested the idea. I takes 5 mins to get both shocks off.
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AuthorMessage
Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 47
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 2900
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2016 11:32 pm

Test riding starts now!
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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4416
Age : 81
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 10565
Registration date : 2009-06-12

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 8:06 am

Nice photos. Thanks.

The shocks come completely disassembled? Is there a link to the manufacturer?

Tim
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Flyingpanman
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
Flyingpanman


Number of posts : 237
Age : 74
Location : Morecambe, Lancs., UK.
Points : 3184
Registration date : 2016-06-03

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 11:07 am

They look interesting with the damper reservoir, etc.

If they want a evaluation for the variety of surfaces found on UK roads, I'm willing to be a test pilot.
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Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 47
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 2900
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 1:55 pm

I will get "Gears" info for you of course. I just finished 200 miles of test riding so I'm looking at my notes trying to come up with "intelligent" description of my findings. The results are very good, but I want to be simplistic. After all, I'm not a suspension guy.
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Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 47
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 2900
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeMon Sep 05, 2016 11:34 pm

Well the "Gears" guru showed up on time and with my shocks (and other peoples) and got busy. He measured my bike's height with the old shocks with me and without me on it by measuring from the lip of the rear fender to the ground. Assembled the new shocks and set preload, compression, and rebound just by his experience. We put the new shocks on and checked ride height. With the holes I put in the storage area, install took about 15 mins.

Test ride! I put 200 miles on the bike going after the nastiest, roughest, pothole-iest, roads I know. Now my Wing has always had issues:

#1- Back end bounces like crazy. My butt actually comes off the seat and slams back down about 2 times a second at fwy speeds. Now with the new shocks, I still feel the bumps, but my butt stays planted in the seat. The bike now has a secondary rebound float which it never had before. Gives it a soft feeling which is what I want. I want a Cadillac ride.

#2- When I enter a banked on/off ramp, the bike squats (loads) then immediately un-loads in the rear which makes it start leaning over too much changing my arc sending me towards the inside of my turn forcing me to back off throttle, straighten the bike up, then get back into it. I end up doing a squared out turn. This is now completely gone. I throw it into a turn, it loads, and stays loaded 'til I come out.

#3-I've always had to crank up the preload with a passenger. The new shocks seem affected very little by the extra weight. It is a little softer w/passenger and that secondary float is a little more pronounced. But I'm perfectly happy with it.

Something the Guru pointed out, is the right shock is going to hotter after a ride than the left 'cause of the muffler. So I went for a ride with my thermal heat gun and discovered the left shock was about 100 Deg F and the right was 110 Deg F. But I let the bike sit and idle like I was in heavy traffic and the temp on the right went up to 130 Deg F. So I'm fabbing a heat shield out of alum that will bolt to the muff bolt and go down between muff and shock. I will post pics when it's done.

So what's the biggest problem I have now?....................THE FRONT END SUCKS BIG TIME!!!!!! Now that the rear is calmed down, the front bouncy is a lot more evident. The Guru says he's working on something for the front, but it will be a while. Gears already has complete front end suspension for Tmax's and Kymco's.  

Well that's my test report. Just seat of the pants. If you want tech data, you'll have to call Gears.

Now these are not Wal-Mart shocks. They are high-end, billet, fully adjustable, and pretty! To me, it's worth it. I don't want to ride a 800 lb bike to get a good ride.

www.gears-racing.com
https://facebook.com/gears.racingl/
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"Hi Yo"
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Too Bouncy - Page 2 510-80


Number of posts : 2940
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Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 3:31 pm



Toolman,

Thanks for the report. Others have used Hyperpro shocks for the front end. Do a search in the search box by entering Hyperpro and you should see their information.
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Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 47
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 2900
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 06, 2016 10:37 pm

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
Nice photos. Thanks.

The shocks come completely disassembled? Is there a link to the manufacturer?

Tim

The shocks will come assembled and pre-set. Link is in my report. Sorry it took so long to answer.
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john grinsel
Curmudgeon
john grinsel


Number of posts : 3299
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Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 07, 2016 7:42 am

Was it ever established that this is a "new bike" or well used 10 year old thing?---my experience with 2 new SilverWings fresh off the showroom floor, the suspension works fine for (a maxi-scooter) for the first 50,000 miles or so.






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Cosmic_Jumper
Site Admin
Cosmic_Jumper


Number of posts : 4416
Age : 81
Location : damn near Philadelphia, PA
Points : 10565
Registration date : 2009-06-12

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 07, 2016 10:06 am

john grinsel wrote:
Back to basic question----how old is bike?  How many miles?  
Weight of rider?  Total load?   Old bike may just need new shocks.

That question has already been asked and answered. Feel free to go back in the thread and find that info.

Tim
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Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 47
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 2900
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 07, 2016 11:50 am

So here's what I came up with for a heat shield. It only touches the muffler at the bottom which will keep it from rotating around the mounting bolt. Also, you can see a pre-load bend at the neck where the shield bolts to the mount. This will keep shield pressed against the muffler (at the bottom) to keep it from rattling. The next time we send parts out for anodize, I'll get it done in black.
Too Bouncy - Page 2 Dscn0728
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terrier
Super Scooter Rider
Super Scooter Rider
terrier


Number of posts : 299
Age : 74
Location : Northumberland, UK
Points : 3545
Registration date : 2015-08-12

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 07, 2016 2:15 pm

john grinsel wrote:
Was it ever established that this is a "new bike" or well used 10 year old thing?---my experience with 2 new SilverWings fresh off the showroom floor, the suspension works fine for (a maxi-scooter) for the first 50,000 miles or so.






John, it looks like it's not too old a bike in the photos but who knows.  I must admit though that when I bought my 2014 SWing last year with only 463 miles on the clock I noticed straightaway that the front end felt soft and I've occasionally bottomed out on large potholes.  And I'm just a little chap Rolling Eyes
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Flyingpanman
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Flyingpanman


Number of posts : 237
Age : 74
Location : Morecambe, Lancs., UK.
Points : 3184
Registration date : 2016-06-03

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 07, 2016 9:21 pm

Nice to hear they're working well. They look well made but, as you said, they are high-end products and will command a considerably higher price than the usual Hagon replacements.

That being the case, and with shipping costs and taxes, I'm pretty sure they will become simply too expensive for any UK owners.

Sad
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Mech 1 twa
Silver Wing Guru
Silver Wing Guru
Mech 1 twa


Number of posts : 1382
Location : Allentown PA.
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Registration date : 2016-01-02

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PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeWed Sep 07, 2016 9:27 pm

Looks like a nice shock. I'm interested.
I'm looking at the amount of preload on the spring and questioning the length, rate. Seems a lot of preload is on spring compared to length of shock. Amount of threads used to adjust height. Maybe a longer spring would give a even better ride., or adjustment for added weight.
Nice write up and photos.
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Toolman
Scooter Rider
Scooter Rider



Number of posts : 47
Location : So Cal, USA
Points : 2900
Registration date : 2016-08-24

Too Bouncy - Page 2 Empty
PostSubject: Re: Too Bouncy   Too Bouncy - Page 2 I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 10, 2016 12:12 am

The Gears guys told me that the shock body is one they use on multiple app's. It is exactly the same as stock. But they decided that the spring to use would be made of thinner wire so it will compress more to get the same ride height. I just know the ride is softer.
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