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 rear tire/wheel valve failure

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PostSubject: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 03, 2016 5:11 pm

I don't know where this subject should go...but important.

On inflating new rear tire today---the curved OEM valve failed/broke in half. so no go on new tire today

It appears rubber part and some metal failed. or car valve if air chuck will fit in...or rim hole is standard, probably cheaper repair route

Will see what Honda parts has in the AM.

Of note: my bike is 2013----over 33,000 miles. I would normally change tire valves at 50,000. What about all of those older bikes out there? Underway valve falling apart could cause sudden deflation=real thrill on 2 wheels.

Right now looks to me curved valve stem===convenience for those too fat to lay on ground.

Really glad this happened in my garage
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 03, 2016 6:08 pm

Lucky escape there John. I've never liked that curved OE rear tyre valve, it was awkward to use and that plastic holder gadget it sits in was a nuisance on my Silver Wing. I bought a pair of low profile angled Ariete alloy racing valves to replace the OE ones when I changed front and rear Bridgestone Hoops to Continental ContiMove 365 tyres recently.

I checked my tyre pressures yesterday with pencil type gauge and it took a fraction of the time it use to with the OE valves. Even though the rear valve was fitted by the tyre guy facing the exhaust and rear disc side, it's still easier and faster than it used to be with the OE valve. It would be even quicker if I'd used the 4 inch long braided steel extension hose that I purchased along with the tyre valves.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 03, 2016 10:49 pm

That plastic piece that supports the tire valve is important. It's there to prevent the valve from being pressed down against the rim by what's commonly and wrongly called 'centrifugal force'. Goldwings have them too. On a cross the US trip with a couple friends one of their tire valves failed on the front wheel. The plastic support had been gone for some while and he didn't think it was needed. I'd recommend using metal 90 degree valves when you replace the tire next time. It will require a bit more balancing weight but won't be so likely to crack. They are also easier to get a tire chuck or gauge onto. On my Goldwing I used a small pair of tie wraps criss-crossed through the plastic brace and over the valve stem. That way at least it couldn't fly off.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 03, 2016 10:51 pm

Mr Grinsel your post belongs in "Silver Wing Topics", not in "Other Scooters & Motorcycles". I've moved your post lest anyone get unduly upset.

Tim
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 4:42 am

I did not like that angled valve in the rear tyre, i seemed to let more air out each time I checked pressure. On first tyre change I had straight valve put in and although more awkward to check pressure I prefer it.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 12:33 pm

Used my local Honda dealer--he had short straight valve , V rated, which should work fine----as broken piece was floating in newly mounted tire-----had then remove it and install new valve stem on their tire machine. Afternoon project=re-install wheel on bike, add Ride On for balance.

Glad I hadn't been stuck in middle of nowhere.

Next project---made sure one of the 3 pumps I can carry with, fits on valve stem. Again walking sucks
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 04, 2016 1:32 pm

exavid wrote:
That plastic piece that supports the tire valve is important. It's there to prevent the valve from being pressed down against the rim by what's commonly and wrongly called 'centrifugal force'.

It is centrifugal "force" that causes the stem to be "pressed" into the rim when the wheel spins.

Though not really a force) it is the inertial tendency of a mass (object) following a curved path to fly away from the center of curvature. The valve stem wants to fly away from the center of rotation.

Centripetal force is the real force that counteracts the inertia and prevents the mass from flying off in a straight line.

Mud flys off a tire when the mud's inertial tendency to fly off (centrifugal force) exceeds the centripetal force (it's adhesion to the tire) holding it in place...

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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 1:43 am

I was riding my 1974 Honda CB750 two weekends ago with a bunch of friends. We must have put on about 100 miles during the trip. Some Interstate riding at 70 mph and some city riding. On the way home I was the only one left as the other riders peeled off at their exits. I was going north through Elk River, MN and stopped at the next to the last light in town. When the light changed we started to go and it felt like the handlebars were coming loose. I managed to get it pulled onto the shoulder and looked the bike over. The handlebars were tight and nothing wrong in front. The rear tire however was flat. I called a friend who came with his car and trailer and gave us a ride home which was about 20 miles. He helped me get it into the garage and the next day when I took the tire off I found the valve stem was ripped off the tube. It was a brand new tire and tube and this was the first long ride I did with them. The "hair" was still on the tread. Needless to say I did a few Thank You prayers. I'm just glad it didn't happen on the Interstate!
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 5:20 pm

Meldrew wrote:
I bought a pair of low profile angled Ariete alloy racing valves to replace the OE ones//.....// the rear valve was fitted by the tyre guy facing the exhaust and rear disc side

Yep, that would be right bud Wink if it's fitted fitting the drive side you need to file/grind a small amount from one of the drive belt housing stiffening ribs.
I did it a couple of years back, I can take a picture & post it if anyone wants/needs to know where & how much to be removed.
Also if you've not done it already, take the dust caps off & grease the threads, the will oxidise & get stuck otherwise.
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeSat Aug 06, 2016 11:16 pm

Finding the stem ripped completely off the tube probably happened because of the pressure loss, possibly from a cracked stem . You don't have too lose much pressure, especially in a tubed tire, to allow the tire to shift on the rim. If the tire slips on the rim at all the stem will go with it. Low tire pressure and hard braking or acceleration can do the job. Been there, done that on a Bultaco.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 08, 2016 6:52 pm

New tire/IRC up and running. So matched IRC tires F & R bike handles fine as Honda expected.

Short, straight valve stem----can be reached from left side with my air chuck, electric pump I carry, hand pump and tire gauge. So improvement from original.
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 09, 2016 1:04 am

rear tire/wheel valve failure Tire_v10

This is what the tube looked like once I got it all taken apart. I'm just glad it didn't happen at 70 mph. That would have sucked! If you look at the stem is wasn't one of the kind that has the threads on the valve stem or the nut to lock it onto the rim. I guess if we live long enough we learn from our mistakes. Never again will I use a tube without the threads on the stem!
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The Bern
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 10, 2016 1:47 pm

Sorry but threads on the stem will make bugger all difference, infact it will make it worse as there is no room for any rim to valve movement at all, a better way to go is rim to tyre anchor bolts, look at old British bikes (rear on T140V for example)
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Reg
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 6:55 am

Hi guys. Newbee here. Are there tubes in these wheels? I had assumed tubeless.

If tubeless does anyone know the rim hole size for the valve stem. On my honda vtx it is .453 inches.
Automobile stems 1 1/4" long work. But the proper honda stem is .453" x 3/4". Which I think would work
nicely on the sw if the hole size is the same.


Last edited by Reg on Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 7:06 am

I, too, thought about hole size----relied on Honda Parts man to come up with proper diameter short straight stem----bought under Honda parts number. Working fine.
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sonuvabug
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 8:36 am

cliffyk wrote:
... snipped ... It is centrifugal "force" that causes the stem to be "pressed" into the rim when the wheel spins. Centripetal force is the real force that counteracts the inertia and prevents the mass from flying off in a straight line.  

Well all I can add is ... may the forces be with you! :lol!:

Reg, the tires are usually mounted tubeless.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 9:06 am

Tubeless is what was and is on my S'Wing and G'Wings makes me wonder why a tube was used in that tire?
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 10:55 am

Pay attention at the back lads!
Dale was referring to the tyre on his 1974 CB750. Most if not all bikes back then had tubed tyres due to the spoked wheels.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 11:45 am

We used to hate the tires/rims/tubes on Brit bike----remember security bolts? I got along fine with tubed tires, realizing tubeless may be safer as the claimed slower release of air when punctured....but remember almost impossible to seat bead of tubeless tire in"field" repair. I have in past even carried tube to put in tubeless, just to get going. Walking sucks to me.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Aug 11, 2016 1:23 pm

I agree John when we had Tubed tyres I always fitted my own tyres and repaired punctures. When Tubeless tyres came in it was getting the seal on the rim, and seating the tyres, that I couldn't manage. On the whole though i think tubeless are better, and I always carry a puncture plug kit.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeTue Aug 16, 2016 12:06 pm

john grinsel wrote:
I, too, thought about hole size----relied on Honda Parts man to come up with proper diameter short straight stem----bought under Honda parts number.  Working fine.

I don't suppose you have that Honda part number?

The Honda dealer here will not help with anything.
They would probably call using a straight stem unsafe.

I had a curved stem on my VTX. It fell apart putting air in the tire. Just lucky it did not happen on the road.

I have a tire machine and do my own. When that tire is done I will be installing a straight stem.
If need be I will measure the hole and then shop for a stem. It will just mean more down time.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeMon Aug 29, 2022 7:14 pm

So, to resurrect this old thread; I had this happen to me this afternoon as I went to leave from work...


rear tire/wheel valve failure Img_2024rear tire/wheel valve failure Img_2026rear tire/wheel valve failure Img_2025

What a Monday! I had just checked the tire pressure before my 15min ride in this morning and seemed all good 36psi. Then this afternoon went to pull out not even 5mph while turning from my space and felt wierd when I couterweighted and then scraped the center stand into the pavement before I stopped. Just glad it didn't happen on the bit of highway I drive!
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 2:54 am

Good grief, how did that happen? The tyre has unseated itself from the rim.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 4:18 am

I'm itching to find out what happened. Did the valve give up in such a way that the tyre deflated in an instant, or was the tyre flat before you set off?
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 4:35 am

remember at this point SilverWings are old bikes and parts like this can fail at anytime---usual I think rubber part gone. Probably should be replaced every 5 years or so.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 8:19 pm

Well got an update for y'all. I got it towed through my insurance to the house mostly because it was so late and the Honda Power sports dealer had no tires for me anyway. Which I found out just how heavy our SW's are when trying to roll it on a flat tire. Anyway, I got a chance to give it a good look over today and found that wheel wasn't chewed up too bad at all, I saw no damage to the tire or valve. So I figured what the heck...replaced my valve core, soaped up the bead and put my heavy duty roadside truck tire pump on and the bias ply bead set back up just fine. Inflated the tire, and got out the soapy water, no bubbles anywhere. Inflated the tire to 36psi as recommended for someone my stature, and rode it through the neighborhood, still holding, so still good? Probably?

One thing I noticed was the valve core was long, and my replacement seemed a touch shorter. Also, I remember it didn't have a cap when I bought it, which I finally put a cap on when I checked the pressure that morning of the fateful day. So, maybe it leaked because of the core/cap combo for my 8hr shift. I just didn't notice when I glanced and when I sat on it, seemed it's normal sponginess for me (6'5" 280lbs).

I'll have to check it in the AM and probably take the back roads 25-35mph to work and see.

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Mech 1 twa
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeWed Aug 31, 2022 9:43 pm

Some others posted about a long straight stem hitting on transmission case and tire going flat. Short stem or angled one will be fine. I like aftermarket aluminum ones, but rear wheel is difficult needs to be turned about 45 to fit on rim. Both of mine mount to right side front is easy rear, need to find the spot away from rim with existing mounting castings on there. Rear stem is a pain either way.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2022 5:52 am

Mech 1 twa wrote:
Some others posted about a long straight stem hitting on transmission case and tire going flat. Short stem or angled one will be fine. I like aftermarket aluminum ones, but rear wheel is difficult needs to be turned about 45 to fit on rim.  Both of mine mount to right side front is easy rear, need to find the spot away from rim with existing mounting castings on there. Rear stem is a pain either way.

I was that poster. I had replaced my rear tire and in doing so, replaced my valve stem. The stem I used was too tall and would hit the forward part of the trans case. Rode my bike to work the next morning (15) miles. Upon leaving my work place I noticed my tire was flat. I thought that someone had purposely let the air out and reported it to parking authorities. Using an air pump I was able to bring the pressure up to about 30 lbs. I got about two miles before it deflated on an on-ramp to a six lane highway. I got my bike towed to my home where I discovered the top part of the valve cap had wore off. Rotating the wheel I saw that it was making contact with the forward part of the trans. I replaced the valve with a short stem and have not had any problems since.

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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2022 10:53 am

Short valves and carry one of these:

https://amzn.to/3Pr3d9s

and one of these:

https://amzn.to/3cvrgW9

They make life for us oldies so much easier. Wink
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DickO
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2022 5:02 pm

I was that poster too... trouble was, the closest repair facility was some distance away... anyway took it there, told'em to put in a straight stem, and then took it home... Well...  I didn't know it was "supposed" to be a "short" stem...  luckily, I spun the wheel after reinstalling it...  hence the clicking noise I detected immediately...  so, being the cheapskate I am and not wanting to travel again, I resorted to "modifying" the offending case it was contacting... problem solved... Smile Wink
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Terry Smith
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeSun Sep 04, 2022 9:06 pm

SWingSteve wrote:
I just didn't notice when I glanced and when I sat on it, seemed it's normal sponginess for me (6'5" 280lbs).


I got a flat tyre on my VFR and it lost all air while I was filling it at the petrol station. When I hopped back on, I thought my legs had grown another couple of inches!

I'm a big fan of 90 degree alloy valve stems on all my bikes, provided there is clearance.
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 14, 2023 3:56 pm

I figured this is as good a place as any to discuss tire valves (vs starting a new thread)…my SWing is now 20 years old and I’m not sure if I’m on the original valve or not since I’m the 3rd owner of the scooter. I have TPMS monitors on my wheels (still check the pressures before a ride, but like to monitor pressure in event of progressive loss from a puncture). Anyway, I was using the TPMS sensors on the OEM valves (I know, a big no-no). Anyway today’s project was to remove the existing valves and replace them with 83 degree metal valves so I can use my TPMS and not worry about a valve failure. 

For the front wheel, I had to take the wheel and tire off the bike as I couldn’t squeeze the one bead off the wheel so I used my tire machine for that:

rear tire/wheel valve failure 728d6d10

Once I got access to the old valve posterior, I cut that off, cleaned the hole and installed the new one:

rear tire/wheel valve failure B451f410

For the back tire, I was able to squeeze the bead off with a couple of hand clamps and a little help from a tire iron:

rear tire/wheel valve failure 3b6e4210

Since the little metal T of the rim interferes with the valve facing right (and it needs to in my case since I’m using TPMS), I used a Dremel and a sanding wheel, taking my time and filed it down just enough to allow the installation of the new valve, so there is clearance on top of the ‘nub’. TPMS clears just fine as well, so if you want to do this installation, it’s not very difficult (and I’m sure you could use the clamps as I did to break the bead or use a large C-clamp to break the bead). I can ride without worry now.
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeTue Mar 14, 2023 3:58 pm

Have to add another entry as I had too many pic uploads:

rear tire/wheel valve failure 55980110
^^ with original metal valve cap (now gone)


rear tire/wheel valve failure Cbf3cf10
^^ back view of the valve with the TPMS monitor installed.


These are KurveyGurl 83 degree 11.3 mm valves- the whole cost of the switch was the cost of the valves (I think $28 but I bought them some time ago).
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Mighty Mouse
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 16, 2023 1:28 am

Is the above pic from your rear tyre?
I have always changed to alloy valves in combination with the TPMS. However we swapped the valve around to face the other way, as it is nearly impossible to fill up with air with the valve facing toward the disc brake. Just a thought. Smile
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Loosemarbles
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 16, 2023 5:06 am

That surprised me too!
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 16, 2023 6:06 am

I did a lot of reading here and suspected the tpms monitor would strike something on the left side of the rear wheel if I faced it to the left. It’s still necessary to get on the floor to fill the tire but not really all that difficult.

I would just have to break the bead again (not that difficult) loosen the nut on the valve and turn it to the left…not that hard to do. Can anyone confirm it’ll fit the other way (without any sanding of the metal on the back of the tranny housing, etc.)?
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LarryD
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 06, 2023 11:49 am

Another great idea from this site. 204 SW with 13,000 miles. Thank you.

Seems that I have to add air the rear tire every time I go for a ride. Not sure if it is the valve or the bead seal. Was dreading another trip to the dreaded moto dealer to pop the tire off and get the old, well, we will see when we can get at it routine.

Now I see that I can break the bead and squeeze the tire over with clamps to clean the bead and put in a new metal 90 degree valve (on an angle). No need to dismount the tire. Love it.

But, working with tires needs some heat, so , making a list of items to address in the spring. Valve, bead, bearing in both wheels. Time to put the swing to bed for the winter. Temps are now hitting a high of 50F here, so no more riding. Must winterize the house, vehicle, doctors appts, and packing, as heading to Yuma AZ for the winter in two weeks . Yes, that is a drive of 3,400 klms, 3 1/2 days.

Note that I really it after moving the but bumper up to a backrest.

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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 06, 2023 11:55 am

I did eventually swap out my rear Hoop tire (was quite a job to get the old one off and new one on)- while the tire and wheel was off, I filed the metal ridge the angled valve stem sits on a bit more (as I had a little difficulty getting the chuck of my bicycle pump on the valve)- I used a Dremel and it filed it nicely. Recently, I got another puncture in the rear tire… rear tire/wheel valve failure 1f61e so I plugged it with a Dynaplug and this seems to be holding air well.

One more thing…with both valves facing to the right, I never really felt it difficult to fill the rear tire- if I have it on the side stand and the valve is at the bottom near the ground, it’s really easy (yes, I still need to kneel on the ground to do that)
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LarryD
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 06, 2023 12:39 pm

I meant to say that I really like having the butt bumper for a backrest. Gives me an inch more seat space ( as I am 6" 2" tall.) I really like having a backrest.

I guess that I should preview my posts before sending them. Lesson learned.
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Erdoc48
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 06, 2023 3:19 pm

Because it was pushing me too far forward and an inch isn’t much extra space, I took mine off and modified the seat- happier without it.
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PostSubject: Re: rear tire/wheel valve failure   rear tire/wheel valve failure I_icon_minitime

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