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 Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.

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gilesmdavis
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Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. Empty
PostSubject: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 7:30 am

Hello 'Wingers

On my ride up the motorway early on Tuesday morning I encountered a bit of rear wheel slip going up the on-ramp. Nothing drastic, it's happened in the same place before in a much more scary way and I put it down to it being a known hazard.

I took it carefully from there but wasn't entirely happy - whether this was in my head or something wrong, I'm not sure.

Later I'm sure I felt another slip crossing lanes - could've been a white line, kept my speed down.

I pulled in and had a visual check - nothing untoward. Felt the rear tyre, nothing slippery there.

In the service station I tried my brakes gently - OK.

Tried them harder at about 10mph, the bike slipped out from under me - left to right, ending up on its side. Glad it was somewhere safe.

So. I have been thinking about it (a lot). Possible things are

1. Tyre pressure. I had checked the night before and it was fine, holding pressure from a week before. I will check again in case I'd picked up a puncture - at least that would explain it.

2. The yips (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yips)

3. Rear shock setup. I've just added Hagon shocks and they are on stock setting. I'm 148lbs. Maybe this needs changing.

4. Front shock setup - just added Progressive springs. Maybe that's making handling strage. Can't say I've noticed front end issues.

5. Steering head bearings need looking at, would this be a cause?

6. Nothing, harden the f*ck up

If anyone has any thoughts, experience or suggestions, I'd like to hear them. I'm riding back tomorrow and not looking forward to it. Then I'll take it to my friendly garage.

Thanks

Giles
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 8:13 am

Rear wheel slip=lack of traction in my book. Are you using Honda recommended tires for the SilverWing?.. You should have left suspension stock.

Load up high?

Slow down. Scooter is not sub for motorcycle....in the handling dept.
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 8:28 am

john grinsel wrote:
Rear wheel slip=lack of traction in my book.  Are you using   Honda recommended tires for the SilverWing?..  You should have left suspension stock.  

Load up high?  

Slow down.   Scooter is not sub for motorcycle....in the handling dept.

Honda installed tyres about 500kms ago. Suspension is stock. Got a laptop bag in a topbox, everything else under seat.

Strangely the squirrely handling was at medium speeds. Motorway cruising ok, in town OK.

I'm going to re-check the tyre pressure this evening.
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john grinsel
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 10:51 am

Hagon shocks=not stock

Different fork springs=not stock

Just because Honda installed tires, does not mean they are the right ones


Top box has neg affect on handling, slippery marking line do too.
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 11:10 am

Ah, I see your point. Not stock setting, stock (Honda) shock.

Well, still got the original front springs. Unfortunately the Honda rear shocks were dead. Having read many, many posts here, was confident they would actually improve handling. I may be wrong. (I don;t rate the Givi 214DT screen that many people do!)

Tyres are Avon Vipers. I had them before with no problems.

Again, top box is not new either.

As Sherlock Holmes would say, this is a three-piper.
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Bash On!
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 11:13 am

Did this start after shocks and springs were changed? After the tires were changed? If so, one or more of the changes is the most likely cause of your problem.

If so, to find the cause you may need to walk back the changes one at a time and see if the problem goes away.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 11:29 am

It could be that the rear brake is locking up. Could be that your tires are made of a harder compound (say Michelin vs Pirelli) and that is contributing to squirrley handling. Could be that the axle nut is loose and the rear wheel is rocking (yawing) on the splines --hopefully that is not the case though because that usually means that the wheel splines become damaged and you'll need a new wheel.

Sorry to hear that you dropped your SW. The down side of owning a plastic bodied bike is that it becomes Humpty Dumpty when it falls. While there may not be any visible damage, quite possibly several internal tabs and mounting points have been broken in the fall. That said, if you were hanging on to the bike trying to arrest the fall that damage may be minimal.

Tim
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 11:34 am

Thanks for the concern Tim.

I'll set the bike on its stand and check the rear wheel is spinning.

As for the plastic, I'm already a dab-hand at the soldering iron / zip tie plastic welding already.

I do wonder who at Honda thought the fragile front fairing interwoven behind the forks was a great design solution. In fact I wonder that every time I try and wriggle the damn thing off.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 07, 2015 11:41 am

Well first you say that the suspension is stock and then you mention changing rear shocks and front springs. I do not think either one is affecting your S/W but most everything is negotiable
Having had these changes made tells me first that you are very sensitive to the handling performance of your S/W and this is not a bad thing. I have also noticed in a few incidences of the same concern and have contributed it to a few circumstances. You can run over a
section where there has been tar used to seal a fracture in the pavement or some grinding in a small section of the road.This can make the S/W a little squarely. Also there has been a lot of engineering used to make the S/W what it is and it is not a sport bike. Hope this helps to give a little more understanding.Howard
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08, 2015 12:10 am

I'd suspect something on the road. Suspension changes shouldn't really make much difference on traction on smooth surfaces at lower speeds.
I had a similar problem with my Goldwing 1800. It would kick out the rear end whenever I passed over the white lines on the road if it was at all damp out. Also on tar snakes. That bike had Bridgestone tires. Previously I'd used Dunlop E3 radials on the bike. Those never had a slipping problem. I changed back to E3s and never had any traction problems.
My last SW had Hoops on it and they worked okay on the scooter.
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tinman
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08, 2015 6:05 am

I would recommend replacing the Avon Stryker tires ,my avon's destroyed themselves under 2 k kl. Mishelin Pure sport is a better choice IMO.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08, 2015 10:42 am

On and Off ramps are usually separated from the main road by expansion strips usually in the form of interlocking steel plates. I am just wondering if that is the problem. The steel plates are extremely slippery and who knows what liquids spill on them and make them worse. Add to that the fact that they are on a slope and curve.
If I were you, Giles, I'd rule out a road hazard in that area before I do drastic things to my SWing.
Jay.
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08, 2015 11:43 am

Judging from the last three posts I think we are in agreement that road surface is the main problem with with your handling concerns.I would also have some reservations about adjusting the steering head bearings.It is not rocket science but you have to be careful and not complicate matters. Howard
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exavid
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 08, 2015 11:45 pm

I don't remember the head bearing adjustment on the Silverwing but it's likely to be similar to adjusting the head bearings on the Goldwing which requires a scale, like a hand held fish scale. In the GW one attaches the scale to a designated point on the forks and then adjusting the tension of the bearing to get a specified resistance to movement on the scale. You can't do it by torque on the fork nut. It's done by tightening the nut, working the forks back and forth while elevated off the ground, then checking the drag with the scale. Repeat until specified resistance is measured on the scale.
Besides adjusting the bearing tension one should elevate the front wheel off the ground and turn the handle bar back and forth to the stops feeling for any roughness or 'notchiness' which indicates a worn bearing.
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gremlin
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09, 2015 12:19 am

gilesmdavis wrote:




Later I'm sure I felt another slip crossing lanes - could've been a white line, kept my speed down.

5. Steering head bearings need looking at, would this be a cause?

6. Nothing, harden the f*ck up


Giles

Those white lines can be extremely slippery, I had a huge slide on a large triangular road marking; it was like sliding on ice!
When the Honda mechanic fitted my front-wheel he checked the steering head bearing. He said  mine is still tight and smooth; according to him access to it requires a fair amount of panels to be removed. ( there is a youtube video)
 Yes, i think that's good advice for everyone  Twisted Evil  When I cast my mind back 40+ years and what one had to put up with on the old bikes and scooters, we do some great gear to ride on nowadays!
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NWSSC
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PostSubject: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.    Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09, 2015 2:51 am

Unlike the G/W the steering head bearings used on all S/W are of the ball bearing type.These must be tightened to a specific spring scale tension. Later G/W use tapered bearings and are torqued down to a specific amount-14-ft lbs. A good quality wheel bearing grease can be used on both the ball and the tapered style bearings. Howard
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gilesmdavis
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PostSubject: Re: Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why.   Rear wheel slip. Not fun. Not sure why. I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 09, 2015 4:40 am

Well I rode 150 miles home last night and it was fine. No squirrelly handling, no scares, in fact just a blast.

The trick was singing along to Elvis Costello. Oh, and it not raining.

After 20 mins in town in rush hour traffic it was obvious the tyres weren't squirming. I passed up on refuelling until the motorway. It was fine.

Checked air (for 50p !!!!! Criminal Evil or Very Mad ) still spot-on. Put on warmer gear, had an espresso, headphones on and off we went.

So, as I feared, that first slide must have either given me the yips, or the tyre got coated in something but I think it was mainly in my head. As my instructor said when I asked him about riding over manhole covers "don't do anything stupid".

"Testing" the brakes until the bike slid out was, in retrospect, stupid.

Will get the mechanics to sort the notchy steering - think it's an MOT failure over here - and will check my suspension setup more scientifically. Although dismantling the rear end to do that still makes me despair.

Thanks for all the advice and support. That's why I love this forum.

Onwards and upwards

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