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Swing13
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PostSubject: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 26, 2014 8:30 pm

Only the second post for this member since introducing myself last year. I have a question concerning the clutch outer (sometimes referred to as the clutch bell) installation tool as shown on page 10-20 of the Honda service manual. Pulling the clutch outer is no problem with Honda's puller 07ZMC-MCTA100 as shown on page 10-10, but my question concerns the installation tool shown on page 10-20.

It appears that the installation tool is made up of three separate pieces, the "Assembly Collar" 07ZMF-MCT0100 (USA only), the "Threaded Shaft" 07931-ME4010B and the "Special Nut" 07931-HB3020A. If this is correct, the cost of the complete assembly tool would be over $192.00 US dollars (thru Partzilla). Is this correct, are all three pieces necessary to make up the compete installation tool?

I have oil leaking from the rear drive, dripping from the bottom of the plastic cover, and have determined that neither the rear drive drain or fill plug are leaking (new sealing washers installed yesterday and both still dry as a bone). That makes the oil seal behind the clutch outer suspect. Easy job to replace the seal if I had the correct tools, but this could be a mighty expensive tool - and I refuse to do any hammering. I absolutely will not take it to my local Honda dealer, I've seen there service department. The young kid working there actually told me "yea, I think I've worked on one of those before".

Does anyone have particular knowledge of the installation tool in question and what must be ordered to make up the complete tool. You help would be very much appreciated. Thanks
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 26, 2014 10:15 pm

I've used a 1 1/2 diameter piece of PVC (cut to an appropriate length), a stack of big washers and the original clutch nut. The PVC will just fit over the clutch bell threads so they wont get damaged. Put a washer or two on the shaft, run the nut up tight, remove the nut, add a few more washers then put the nut on again. Repeat as necessary until the clutch bell clears the snap ring groove in the shaft. You may have to use some means to stop the PVC from turning --I used a pipe wrench. HTH

Tim
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Swing13
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeFri Sep 26, 2014 10:28 pm

Thanks Tim, sounds like a lot less expensive way to go. I'll give it a try. I'd still like to know about the Honda tool however. Thanks again Smile

Dan
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeSat Sep 27, 2014 3:38 pm

Oops, I posted a reply to Dimonds "Driven Pulley Rebuild" earlier today in. error. It gives two YouTube links to videos about a version of that clutch bell tool you're inquiring about. Check it out. Unfortunately I can't figure out how to copy/paste that post to this thread. HTH

Tim
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 30, 2014 2:16 pm

If you have a lathe the Italian SW forum may be of help .... http://www.silverwing400.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=87&Itemid=83
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 30, 2014 3:38 pm

Swing13 wrote:
Thanks Tim, sounds like a lot less expensive way to go.  I'll give it a try.  I'd still like to know about the Honda tool however.  Thanks again  Smile

Dan

I've got that tool sitting in my basement. It's brand new still in the Honda plastic bag. I don't need it. The part # is 07ZMC-MCTA100
New they're $100 and up from any Honda online parts store. Ebay, they're $70 used.
I can do $50 US and you pay the shipping. And I'll throw in a set (front, rear, and parking) of brand new organic compound EBC disc brake pads (Made in England) for your Swing as well.
The part #'s for the pads are SFA281, SFA196, and SFA257/2. Is that not a deal?
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Dimond
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 30, 2014 5:40 pm

Hi Bigbird, I am very interested in the clutch tool and pads. I will PM you. Thanks!
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 30, 2014 5:47 pm

Dimond wrote:
Hi Bigbird,  I am very interested in the clutch tool and pads.  I will PM you.  Thanks!

You're now third in line. However the second person after Swing13 has made a commitment to buy the goodies. I'm waiting to hear from Swing13.
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model28a
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model28a

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Sep 30, 2014 9:42 pm

Just my luck, I logged on at 3:00 pm then went on to read other forums. I come back at 9:30 only to find out I'm six hours too late. Put me at number four if everyone else drops out bigbird. Crying or Very sad Rolling Eyes
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glencoeman
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01, 2014 4:25 am

According to a site in the UK (David Silver spares) using the stated part number, the tool has now been discontinued and is not available.
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Guest
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01, 2014 4:49 am

For Europe the part number is different bud, 07ZMF-MCT0100
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glencoeman
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01, 2014 7:42 am

Bit pricy at £103 though!
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Meldrew
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01, 2014 8:59 am

bigbird wrote:
Dimond wrote:
Hi Bigbird,  I am very interested in the clutch tool and pads.  I will PM you.  Thanks!

You're now third in line. However the second person after Swing13 has made a commitment to buy the goodies. I'm waiting to hear from Swing13.

I wonder why he needs the tool, he's just bought a new 2013 Silver Wing? scratch
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Sold   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 01, 2014 6:51 pm

bigbird wrote:


I've got that tool sitting in my basement. It's brand new still in the Honda plastic bag. I don't need it. The part # is 07ZMC-MCTA100
New they're $100 and up from any Honda online parts store. Ebay, they're $70 used.
I can do $50 US and you pay the shipping. And I'll throw in a set (front, rear, and parking) of brand new organic compound EBC disc brake pads (Made in England) for your Swing as well.
The part #'s for the pads are SFA281, SFA196, and SFA257/2. Is that not a deal?

Sold to a nice man in the Bay area.
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Loosebearing
Super Scooter Rider
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Loosebearing

Number of posts : 216
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 25, 2018 12:03 pm

Well, it's time to look at removing my clutch outer as mine looks as though it has been run with the shoes down to the metal...horrible scoring. I'm thinking of trying a conventional 3 legged clutch puller to remove it. Does anyone have any cautionary tales about using one of these?

Also, cosmic jumper, I like the idea of using a PVC tube and washers to replace the clutch outer. How come the tube didn't fracture under the strain? Do I need a particular thickness of PVC?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 25, 2018 12:50 pm

I think the reason for a 4 arm puller is because a three arm one is too difficult to control. Possibly those puller arms were tied or banded together to keep them from spreading. Or maybe the 4 arm puller arms have a different shape.

IIRC You mentioned "rebuilding" the final drive; it is possible to remove the final drive cover & clutch bell as one piece. The cover bolts can be accessed thru the holes in the clutch bell. Then it might be possible to press the final drive shaft off the clutch bell. The bell and shaft are not so tight that it requires a lot of pressure to seperate the two. More like strong encouragement.

The installation tool is just standard schedule 40 PVC pipe, with ~5mm thick walls. The clutch bell isn't installed so tight that the PVC is going to split or fracture.
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Loosebearing
Super Scooter Rider
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Loosebearing

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 25, 2018 1:09 pm

Thanks for that Tim,

A four legged puller makes more sense I guess. Doing the clutch bell and final drive at the same time seems like a good idea, however, we've got some trips to Europe planned for this year so I'm now thinking of doing this as a winter project. The bike is riding fine right now. Time to check out the final drive overhaul and see how to plan all this stuff. I'm gonna be a busy Hector !
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arskal
Scooter Rider
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arskal

Number of posts : 37
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeMon Jun 25, 2018 1:58 pm

I recommend to use only that tool for removing clutch bell. 07ZMC-MCT0100.
If you use something other option you can damage clutch bell. The risk is that the clutch bell will bend and cause vibration. Installation is simple. You can use PVC pipe and custom made nut. I bought two nuts, M16 and long nut. I welding these together and using threared rod and washer for installation.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WjkwO4SufHPqk_qiYO_s_5F4jd4BoVXi/view?usp=sharing

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n0YrDvqEnH9PA1vMOhPS-Y2K-Dv2JBbK/view?usp=sharing
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Loosebearing
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Loosebearing

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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 26, 2018 1:17 pm

Hi there arskal,

I would love to own one of those removal tools but I'm told that they are no longer available. Where do I get one? How much do they cost?

I think I'll go down the PVC pipe method for replacing the drum though.

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arskal
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arskal

Number of posts : 37
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 26, 2018 2:31 pm

I ordered that tool from KFM-Motorräder. One year ago. They ordered it for me. Here is link

https://www.kfm-motorraeder.de/cms/en/genuine-spare-parts/honda-spare-parts?itemid=07ZMCMCT0100
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Loosebearing
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeTue Jun 26, 2018 2:35 pm

Thanks for that. I'll get in touch with them Smile
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Ze'ev
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Jan 16, 2019 9:06 am

Guest wrote:
If you have a lathe the Italian SW forum may be of help .... http://www.silverwing400.it/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=87&Itemid=83

the old link was broken.
here is an updated one for future .

http://www.swci.it/silverwing400.it/index.php/31-fai-da-te/86-attrezzo-estrattore-campana

Cosmic_Jumper wrote:
I've used a 1 1/2 diameter piece of PVC (cut to an appropriate length), a stack of big washers and the original clutch nut. The PVC will just fit over the clutch bell threads so they wont get damaged. Put a washer or two on the shaft, run the nut up tight, remove the nut, add a few more washers then put the nut on again. Repeat as necessary until the clutch bell clears the snap ring groove in the shaft. You may have to use some means to stop the PVC from turning --I used a pipe wrench. HTH

Tim

If someone try this method id love for a Pictorial .

EDIT #3
I discovered 2 SilverWing forums (french and russian)
Here is another example of clutch tool
http://silverwing-france.forumactif.org/t423-extraction-cloche-embrayage

the Russian forum link - http://silverwing-club.ru/forum/index.php (didn't checked it out yet.)
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Loosebearing
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 1:18 pm

I'm stuck. I'm trying to put on a replacement clutch bell. I've tried the pvc pipe, I even used an ample supply of washers to make up a 'tube'.

The problem is that the bell will not fit close enough to expose the circlip groove. When tightening up the bell in both cases, the wrench comes to a 'dead stop'. Holding both brakes on and with the parking brake on, the wheel moves under wrench pressure before the bell is seated. I don't want to force it any further in case I damage something. Does it really need that much more force to fit correctly?

I tried re-fitting the original bell but had the same problem !...What's going on?
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 3:12 pm

Sounds as if you have run out of threads. If so, adda couple of more spacer washers and hold the PVC with a pipe wrench. In the adsense of the right tool, the clutch bell can only go on incrementally with this makeshift method.

Tim
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arskal
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 20, 2019 4:43 pm

Remove the gearbox cover and install clutch bell with hydraulic press. You can install the cover back even clutch bell is installed to input shaft. You can put cover screws back via clutch bell holes. Use grease in threads when you install clutch bell to input shaft.
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Loosebearing
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeThu Mar 21, 2019 2:04 pm

Success ! I hadn't run out of thread, I was using 2 inch pipe and extra large washers to cope. I also cut the pipe with a saw and so it wasn't square.

Using 1 1/2 inch pipe (as Tim suggested!) cut with a pipe cutter and using smaller washers, it has moved that extra bit needed with much less force.

Anyhow. I'll post it all when it's done.
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Dale N.
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 23, 2019 2:52 pm

Loosebearing, Great info and photos! Thanks.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 23, 2019 3:15 pm

Great pictures and info: I feel I could do this if I had to. Thank you, loosebearing.

Jay.
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Cosmic_Jumper
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeSat Mar 23, 2019 4:42 pm

Loosebearing's successful pictorial on removing and installing the clutch outer without Honda special tools has been moved to its own topic: "Clutch Bell, how to remove & replace".

https://www.silverwing600.com/t10987-clutch-bell-how-to-remove-replace

And rather than have the excellent pictorial become dilited with comments &/or accolades I've temporarily locked that post.

Kudos to Loosebearing and thanks so much for sorting out this longstanding headache.

Tim


Last edited by Cosmic_Jumper on Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Loosebearing
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeSun Mar 24, 2019 11:46 am

Thanks Tim, good idea. BTW, I've just got back from a 2 hour spin (solo) and the SW is behaving perfectly. It seems that riding with a badly scored clutch bell (even with new clutch pads) can have an effect on the whole drive system. I had been living with an occasional squeal from the belt, a rattling noise above 50mph and a judder on hard take off.......all gone!.....DING..DONG small moped


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Scootypuff Snr
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PostSubject: Re: Clutch Outer Installation Tool   Clutch Outer Installation Tool I_icon_minitimeWed Mar 27, 2019 9:40 am

Loosebearing

Thank you for taking the time & effort to photograph,write up & share.

A really useful noteworthy thread
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