Honda Silver Wing Scooter Forum

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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09, 2013 7:57 am

I am thinking about the tapit that almost broke off in my crankcase at oil change this Saturday. I am wondering if anything in my technique ( described in "oil change surprise") contributed to the failure of the threads. That nut was on there so tight that the O-ring is totally fused. I would like to hear your thoughts on that. Thanks.
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeWed Oct 09, 2013 9:14 am

That does sound tight for a drain plug. Did the threads shear off? you may be able to recoil the female thread with a stainless steel coil which may not be so sticky as aluminium to aluminium
(alumnium to USA residents). If you have stripped the drain plug, which just happens to be Honda's solution to an overstock of tappet covers for another model, you may be able to replace it and the O ring. Just dont overtighten the plug when you put it back together again.
If you need to buy a new plug, make sure you ask for a drain plug for the Silverwing.

Torque 15 Nm. for drain plug
and dont forget, smear clean motor oil on the thread before assy.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 8:04 am

Yep, Kurt. The threads sheared off: 1-2 mm of metal was hanging on, but it all came out in one piece, thankfully. I did get a new one and took all precautions to install properly, lube and all. My torque wrench is mid range and does not even register 10 ft/lbs. I also realized that the torque value for the oil filter is double that of the plug. So, I tightened to the best of my "feel". Not too tight with the wrench. I ran the bike afterwards, no leaks, except for the drops that catch on the plate when I drained the oil. I read in another to watch for that: looks like a leak but it's not. All good so far. Thanks.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 5:41 pm

cotetoi wrote:
Yep, Kurt. The threads sheared off: 1-2 mm of metal was hanging on, but it all came out in one piece, thankfully. I did get a new one and took all precautions to install properly, lube and all. My torque wrench is mid range and does not even register 10 ft/lbs. I also realized that the torque value for the oil filter is double that of the plug. So, I tightened to the best of my "feel". Not too tight with the wrench. I ran the bike afterwards, no leaks, except for the drops that catch on the plate when I drained the oil. I read in another to watch for that: looks like a leak but it's not. All good so far. Thanks.
I'll probably get corrected for this but, I have never used a wrench to tighten an oil filter. I have always just turned the filter until it bottomed out and then turned it ¼-½ turn by hand.(I can tell by feel)  I have never had a filter leak and usually still had to use a wrench to remove the old filter. YMMV
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 7:46 pm

I've read more than once about stripped oil plug threads. I haven't had mine off. (1,200 mi. new swing)

Is there enough metal there to re-tap the threads and insert a heli coil? ( http://www.helicoil.in/ ) I've used them with no problem a few times on my racing bikes stripped spark plugs. Just wondering.
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cotetoi
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 9:13 pm

Model28,
I did not use a wrench on the oil filter and when I tightened the drain plug I just barely got it on and 1/4 turn, no more. I was referring to the manual's torque values for the oil filter and drain plug: the oil filter torque value is almost double that of the drain plug. But I wasn't following those directions for lack of a low setting torque wrench. I went by what I 'felt" was okay.
Hardee,
I was referring to the threads on the drain plug: mine were barely hanging because the plug had a crack running right around. No issues with the engine case threads. They are fine. I should have posted a picture, but threw the plug out. If I locate it again I'll post the pic.
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bigbird
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 9:20 pm

model28a wrote:

I'll probably get corrected for this but, I have never used a wrench to tighten an oil filter. I have always just turned the filter until it bottomed out and then turned it ¼-½ turn by hand.(I can tell by feel)  I have never had a filter leak and usually still had to use a wrench to remove the old filter. YMMV
I'm with you, Roger.
I have never used any tool other than my right hand to tighten a spin-on oil filter.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Oct 10, 2013 11:20 pm

cotetoi my bad, I didn't see the period between "feel" and Not. By me mistakenly blending the two sentences together it made me think you used a wrench to tighten the filter. Looking back and rereading your post(with the period in place) I can see you clearly said "I tightened to the best of my "feel" period Not too tight wih the wrench."Embarassed
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KurtPerthWA
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 1:04 am

BTW FYI

15 Nm from German Service Manual. Conversion approx 11 ft/lb. I also believe in feel tightnening of soft materials.


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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 2:55 pm

Anyone else think that its unreal that the sump nut/plug (15Nm) is about half as tight as the oil filter (26Nm) which we do up by hand scratch 

Anybody care to chance tightening their sump nut/plug just by hand Rolling Eyes 
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 3:49 pm

RArch wrote:
Anyone else think that its unreal that the sump nut/plug (15Nm) is about half as tight as the oil filter (26Nm) which we do up by hand scratch 

Anybody care to chance tightening their sump nut/plug just by hand Rolling Eyes 
If the nut for the sump was as big as the filter I would not fear tightening by hand. Now trying to get my hand on that small nut, I don't think so. I don't think finger tight would work. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeFri Oct 11, 2013 5:52 pm

It's the O-ring that does the sealing, not the tappet's threads. You only need enough torque to compress the O-ring.
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 13, 2014 8:25 pm

I'm new to this forum but every bike I've ever had I just tightened the drain plug up with one hand on the head of the ratchet and turned about as tight as I could go. Good and Snug and never had a problem with it leaking or coming out. The filter always gets hand tight whether on a bike or automobile. It's just my way of doing it.
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 13, 2014 8:40 pm

Dale N. wrote:
I'm new to this forum but every bike I've ever had I just tightened the drain plug up with one hand on the head of the ratchet and turned about as tight as I could go. Good and Snug and never had a problem with it leaking or coming out. The filter always gets hand tight whether on a bike or automobile. It's just my way of doing it.
Be sure to use a 6 point 24mm socket to prevent rounding off the plug. The 6 point is the critical factor according to others. I took their advice and picked one up at Auto Zone and had no problems.
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model28a
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 13, 2014 9:20 pm

Dale N. wrote:
I'm new to this forum but every bike I've ever had I just tightened the drain plug up with one hand on the head of the ratchet and turned about as tight as I could go. Good and Snug and never had a problem with it leaking or coming out. The filter always gets hand tight whether on a bike or automobile. It's just my way of doing it.
Read through the forum and you see that the drain plug on the Silverwing was not designed to be a drain plug. It's a lot thinner than most. It seals with an O-ring and only needs to be snug or you could break very easy. You have found the Best Silverwing site on the web. Good luck with your "new" Silverwing.
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeThu Feb 13, 2014 10:40 pm

Dale's methods are just fine.The drain cap is a sand cast so perty brittle.
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PostSubject: Re: Did I do that?   Did I do that? I_icon_minitimeFri Feb 14, 2014 1:03 am

I usually use a wrench about 6" long to snug up drain plugs. With a short wrench I just pull it 'snug' not 'tight'. Drain plugs don't tend to loosen in use, the parts aren't rotating or vibrating all that much so just seating it down snugly does the job.
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